07-02-2005 08:54									#1
	Game Discussion I Increase the size of your Attachments

For general non-secret game discussion.

We shouldn't discuss anything of course until we've all met in the game ...

	10-02-2005 23:10									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Overseer wishes all team captains to approve him for the private forums that he may watch over things...

I promise not to share any info with anyone other than the other members of the admin.

	11-02-2005 03:04									#3
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Our team has voted no

Sorry but the doors are closed for reasons of privacy

so change ya av, and get a real job

	11-02-2005 03:20									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Paddy the Scot Our team has voted no Sorry but the doors are closed for reasons of privacy

Really? Why, may I ask? As I've pointed out in other threads it's been a big help in other demogames to have an overseer who has access to the forums for troubleshooting purposes.

	11-02-2005 03:25									#5
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I've already tried UnO, and they wouldn't let me in

Don't worry though I've put a black mark next to their names so we can remember this when they start getting close to the 12 hour time limit....

But seriously though in terms of turn skipping, hopefully it shouldn't have to happen but if it does then above all we'll have to be consistent and not be more stringent on one team than another

	11-02-2005 04:03									#6
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Its called a private forum !!

	11-02-2005 04:32									#7
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They simply want to cheat without anyone knowing... Must be this, for no other reason comes to my mind...

	11-02-2005 05:35									#8
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It ain't that private.

I am Ok with the mods/administrators/game gods viewing our forums. I trust them not to reveal any info they may glean from our cutting commentary and brilliant civ3 strategic and tactical insights. And please, the city naming thread is very sensitive. "City of Kittens" is gaining momentum....

	11-02-2005 06:36									#9
	Put an end to popups!

I'm not sure what the advantage would be. Troubleshooting can be done from here, the common forum, or through PMs if there is a specific detail needed. Or for that matter if something ever does come up it can be granted then, if there IS something that requires access - but I don't see what that would be...

	11-02-2005 08:37									#10
	Suffering from ads?

If we get a "City of Kittens" I DEMAND a "City of Puppies"

	11-02-2005 10:40									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Gamecube64 If we get a "City of Kittens" I DEMAND a "City of Puppies"

I think Beta's just remembering a certain massacre in another DG ...

	11-02-2005 11:43									#12
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Hmmm....non-secret game discussion huh?

Well, we are a friendly lot and we don't mind giving away a few secrets......so ok.....well we've played the first turn and I can reveal that the Desolation Row has moved at least 2 of it's Settlers from their starting position.

I hope you all use this information to your greatest benefit. We are happy to give you all a head start such as this

	12-02-2005 00:34									#13
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

In the PTWDG Trip has been known to stomp a few problems in the private forums before they effected the games. Panzer was also given this ability in the PTWDGII. I thought it was standard practice by now.

I had also thought of keeping a history for release after the game, similar to what he is doing. This also requires knowledge of what each team was planning so as to show how those plans worked or failed.

If that's not wanted, though, so be it. No skin off my teeth.

	12-02-2005 01:01									#14
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the mods of the ACDG did also reveal "strange" events going on in the privacy of the subforums... Like people using exploits to find other bases and the like.

I would really recommend such an institution!

	12-02-2005 01:27									#15
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Blood Oath Horde all well know the possible cheats available to us with the Civ3 program, but there is no way anyone not strictly confided to our team is going to view our forum period!!!

You will have to take our word as our honour simple as that!!!

	12-02-2005 01:42									#16
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Further the average age of the members of our team is somewhere in the early to mid thirties, frankly i think were all capable of finding our own way to the ablutions.

	12-02-2005 01:57									#17
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I don't think this is a matter of honor. A) Teams simply have to trust each other, B) It would be possible to pull a cheating conspiracy through e-mail even if admins have access

This is more a matter of convenience (private forums become a place to consult with the admin over bugs whenever revealing the details of them in the public forum would give away information) and of allowing the admin(s) to write down the history of the game from an omniscient viewpoint.

	12-02-2005 02:10									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Beta It ain't that private. I am Ok with the mods/administrators/game gods viewing our forums. I trust them not to reveal any info they may glean from our cutting commentary and brilliant civ3 strategic and tactical insights. And please, the city naming thread is very sensitive. "City of Kittens" is gaining momentum....

Beta you may trust them, yet there is an unknown quantity in the Mods to some on our team. Especially when they have already stated that they will be discussing the actions within the forums amongst themselves, and recording information for a story.

Uno, I am a great believer of the story of the game, yet do you really think this is a good option. Your idea is one that has merit indeed, I would prefer to give that some thought though. Even so, my initial reaction is that is not something worthy of access to a private forum. If you wanted to gather information you could quite easily access all of the various private forums at the end of the game. As I think of it, you already have access to the saves through your admin password and having them sent to you.

As Chrisius has stated, we literally are a bunch of seasoned players, old foggies maybe, but we joined this to play a team game, not a school game with master watching over us then discussing our actions with others that are not on our team either...

Anyway my opinion is that it then breaks down the whole team idea, the chance for the teams to do their thing.

By all means Mark and Ming have access, and each team has a Captain.

As SnoopCat states...

quote: Originally posted by Snoopy369 I'm not sure what the advantage would be. Troubleshooting can be done from here, the common forum, or through PMs if there is a specific detail needed. Or for that matter if something ever does come up it can be granted then, if there IS something that requires access - but I don't see what that would be...

Can someone please confirm that the Mods are not given access when MarkG gives them their Powerz, ie someone in the other such Demo Games with private Forums. For if they do then this whole conversation is a moot point. If they are not given such access automatically, of if such access can be turned off then we need to discuss this further.

An option maybe that you get access only to those Teams that give you permission.

If required I will put it to a vote within the Horde.

Thank you ( end of )

	12-02-2005 02:11									#19
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Especially the last point is a pretty good one, if you ask me. Though I might be preoccupied by my rank as history-keeper in the ACDG-Morgans...

	12-02-2005 02:34									#20
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx If that's not wanted, though, so be it. No skin off my teeth.

And what teeth they are too!

	12-02-2005 02:55									#21
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus Blood Oath Horde all well know the possible cheats available to us with the Civ3 program, but there is no way anyone not strictly confided to our team is going to view our forum period!!! You will have to take our word as our honour simple as that!!!

Chrisius - with all due respect - give me break. And Paddy, sort of the same response.

To start with on the matter of honour - it would seem to me that you are not extending the same trust to the mods/admins by not wanting them, or trusting them, to oversee the private forums.

This is not a matter of being treated like school kids, or not trusting your team, or not being seasoned. (light shaking of oregano and basil please). This is a matter of having folks familar with the game, and what is going on, that if problems due arise - and trust me - they will - of either a technical nature (as in what has happened to the save and why is it doing strange things), or game-play related(as in gee - I'm not sure that move was cricket), it is good to have folks that can quickly get to the heart of the matter and get the game going again. Pure and simple. The history thing is an added bonus - but in my mind, not the real benefit.

This approach has worked well in the other games - and may have saved the ISDG had it been implemented from day 1.

I think you should reconsider your stance, especially when there is a significant and game-wide benefit to having the mods have access.

	12-02-2005 03:21									#22
	Remove this text

What Beta said!

The game mods are there to facilitate the game moving at a quick pace, not to look over your shoulder at every move you make. They aren't going to be posting in your forum to mess you up and they aren't going to be discussing your every move with each other. IIRC, only once or twice was Trip forced to intervene because of a rules infraction (that I don't believe they even realized they were doing, though I could be wrong on that). Instead of that team going ahead with that infraction and then later in the game having to backtrack several turns to make up for it, that potential problem was headed off beforehand. UnO, OPD, and Dominae know the ropes. They've all been part of multiple democracy games and they know what and what not to do with regard to being an admin. They aren't going to go around blabbing what is in your private forum, and the history that UnO talked about won't be published until the very end of the game anyway.

And Paddy, I know you're a part of the PTWDGII...in Panzer32 you have an overseer/mod as part and parcel of your private forum there. No problems or rules infractions have come up in that game, so Panzer has been an invisible presence. That's the same type of thing we expect here.

	12-02-2005 03:21									#23
	Remove this text

Beta,

I mean no disrespect but what in your statement do they need to do in the team forum.

As too trust old chap, well I did not pick them mate but I see that as not the main point.

Ok so they are familiar with the game - Good.

Yes I agree that problems will arise. For surley the odds are there that they will, and we have all been around C3C and Pbems, DG's etc long enough to understand things just happen.

If a technical problem arises - how will their having access to the team forum help them as Mods, or the Team in question?

If a game-play related problem arises - how will their having access to the team forum help them as Mods, or the Team in question?

They too get the save, and can be easily contacted eslewhere.

Please could you explain your reasons for raising the ISDG. As for as I understand as a former member this was a game in a private forum, not a game with private team forums. My apologises if I am nistaken in this. It is just that I do not understand when in my memory they are certainly two different formats for Private Forums.

I am more than willing to reconsider my stance old chap. I would just like reasons that in turn show good why they need access.

Thank you (end of again... opps still going )

please be patient with me mate. I am not trying to be obstanient or cause problems. I just know too from past experience that all should be discussed when not all agree. And I believe that we need to get this sorted prior to the access being granted etc.

	12-02-2005 03:28									#24
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quote: Please could you explain your reasons for raising the ISDG. As for as I understand as a former member this was a game in a private forum, not a game with private team forums. My apologises if I am nistaken in this. It is just that I do not understand when in my memory they are certainly two different formats for Private Forums.

The ISDG was a game between eight teams, all from different sites.

Apolyton,
GWT (German Webring Team, or ND here)
CDG, Creative Design Group
CFC, Civilastion Fanatics Centre
Firaxis,
CGN,
Grenouillle, the last two were offshoots of Poly
and GCA, GameCatcher Alliance, who effectively caused the game to end prematurely with antics that broke the morale of the Apolyton members, after they got crushed by Poly...

	12-02-2005 03:31									#25
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Just the other way round, what´s the reason for some of you not wanting to have mods get acces to your forums?

You see, this stance just creates the feeling you´re hiding something... It´s supposed to be a game, so fun should be first priority. And in order to ensure fun, we may have to implement an instance that stands above things to make sure no kid gets out of sight while playing

	12-02-2005 03:37									#26
	Remove this text

what so your guilty till you prove yourself innocent these days - not likely Micha

no I still do not see reasons for the access to be approved yet...

innocent is the constitutional rights for most democratic nations... and last I looked this was called a democracy Game...

thanks for your happpy thoughts though

were you and Nimitz ever Justices in a demo game at the same time?

	12-02-2005 03:47									#27
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Let me take a crack at answering this.

quote: Originally posted by Paddy the Scot If a technical problem arises - how will their having access to the team forum help them as Mods, or the Team in question?

For technical problems, knowing the exact method that a team or multiple teams went about that might have caused that bug can go a long way in fixing that problem. Instead of having to have everyone gather that information and send it to the admin, he can just check it out for himself. Trip could speak more about this one as he is the primary admin to have dealt with this kind of problem.

quote: If a game-play related problem arises - how will their having access to the team forum help them as Mods, or the Team in question?

See my post directly above yours for my answer to that.

quote: Please could you explain your reasons for raising the ISDG. As for as I understand as a former member this was a game in a private forum, not a game with private team forums. My apologises if I am nistaken in this. It is just that I do not understand when in my memory they are certainly two different formats for Private Forums.

Regarding the ISDG, there were accusations of cheating that ran rampant in that game. Among other things, many of the members at 'Poly got tired of it and quit the game well before it finally ended recently. I believe what Beta was specifically speaking about was the fact that if the admin of that game had been able to verify things in other's forums, then all those accusations would never have cropped up. But he didn't so the problems never went away (long story), and the game ended on a sour note.

I'm not trying to say those accusations will fly around in this game, but in my opinion this goes back to what I said in my post above about Trip and the rules infraction. There needing to be an ounce of prevention before a big debacle happens.

Hope that helps.

	12-02-2005 03:54									#28
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Rhoth, Kloreep, Beta and all you ever patient people....

Thank you

I will retire to my corner and consider your words

Please be patient with my elderly mind and this matter.

	12-02-2005 03:59									#29
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

whatever its still not going to happen

Keep out of our forum or we will meeet and talk elsewhere!!!

It is called a PRIVATE FORUM got it!!!

	12-02-2005 04:01									#30
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As a compromise - may I propose -

A single game mod - probably Dominae - as he created the map and set it up and is more knowledgeable than a lot of us (me included ), would have the passwords and access to the forums, on the understanding that he would not access it for interest or story-writing purposes or on any regular basis, but only when an issue arises and he needs to check things out.

To be honest - I am not so sold on the story angle. By the time a game either rumbles or wimpers to a conclusion, most folks know the story line or are tired of the game. Most of the early key aspects of the ptwdg1 have already been discussed in various places.

And besides - as Churchill once wrote - (at least I think it was him) - History is written by the victors!

Would this work with the Blood(y) Oath crew? We simply have a very good technician capable of fixing things if he is needed.

(maybe I should check with Dom too... but I'm sure he would be up for it.)