10-02-2005 04:39									#121
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Why?

	10-02-2005 04:39									#122
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quote: For the same reason that it's immoral to give expensive gifts to get business deals. It's immoral to get them and it's immoral to recieve them.

Why is it immoral?

	10-02-2005 04:42									#123
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quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy Why is it immoral?

Because it clouds the proper relationship between student and teacher. The grade may be for sex and not learning.

	10-02-2005 04:51									#124
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What if the sex does not affect the grade, or there is no discernable evidence to that end? The burden of proof is on you to show that sex has affected the grade. What of teachers that have relationships with students who aren't at their school? My 29 year old gym teacher when I was 14 was having an affair with a 16 year old student from another school. What makes that worse than if he was a window cleaner?

What of students and teachers sleeping w/ each other who aren't in the same class?

	10-02-2005 04:51									#125
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quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy Why?

Because either the student is buying her or his grade with sex, or the teacher is extorting sex from the student in exchange for a grade, or the teacher will be unable to objectively evaluate the student. Any one or combination of these possibilities degrades the value of the education. The perception of any of these possibilities as having occurred diminishes the reputation of the institution.

	10-02-2005 04:52									#126
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...a thought springs to mind

Note how gym teachers are involved... hmmm

	10-02-2005 04:53									#127
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quote: Because either the student is buying her or his grade with sex, or the teacher is extorting sex from the student in exchange for a grade, or the teacher will be unable to objectively evaluate the student.

Or in three cases I know of, they fell passionately in love and are now married with children.

Oh dear....

	10-02-2005 04:54									#128
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quote: Any one or combination of these possibilities degrades the value of the education. The perception of any of these possibilities as having occurred diminishes the reputation of the institution.

So it's a matter of institutional etiquette? Of the same value as the etiquette which governs, say, my potty mouth at a board meeting?

	10-02-2005 05:03									#129
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Well, while as a 13 boy, I certainly would have persued such a relationship with as hot a teacher as this, I certainly wouldn't have cooperated with police. After all, they'd be stoppin' me from gettin' more.

However, I won't say it wouldn't have played havoc with me emotionally. I remember how stupid I acted about the woman I lost my virginity too, and I was a minor and she was an adult (17 and 23). It messed me up for about a year. At 13, I'd be far less able to handle the emotional repercutions.

Remember, kids are stupid. They want things that are bad for them.

	10-02-2005 05:06									#130
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quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy What if the sex does not affect the grade, or there is no discernable evidence to that end? The burden of proof is on you to show that sex has affected the grade. What of teachers that have relationships with students who aren't at their school? My 29 year old gym teacher when I was 14 was having an affair with a 16 year old student from another school. What makes that worse than if he was a window cleaner?

In some cases, maybe most it won't affect the grade. Maybe initially no one intends for it to be, but in the end some times it does.

quote: What of students and teachers sleeping w/ each other who aren't in the same class?

That seems fine by me. Although there might be some complications if the student has to take a class from the instructor in another semester. I don't think it's allowed though.

	10-02-2005 05:14									#131
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It appears Dr Strangelove is raining on some folks' party!

What the teacher did was wrong. As a legal adult, it's her responsibility to, well, be responsible. Having sex with a 13-year-old isn't being responsible. It's being irresponsible. She should take responsibility for her actions. It's the only responsible course of action. And, no, I don't have an unnatural attraction toward the word "responsible."

I believe she did what she did simply because she could. It was a power thing, nothing more, nothing less. And females are eminently capable of raping other people — it's happened to people I know. No, it's not as common as males raping females ... but it does happen, and a victim is a victim.

Gatekeeper

	10-02-2005 05:22									#132
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In the matter of this case i dont think he was having sex with here to make an a in english The fact that he did have sex with her is another matter. Sure the teacher is hot but at what point is the line drawn at whether this is acceptable or not. Maybe im just pissed cause all my teachers mle that is were old and fugly. No im kidding the teacher needs to be taken out of the profession and the student well lets just say has the rights for a new made for tv movie.

	10-02-2005 06:20									#133
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quote: However, I won't say it wouldn't have played havoc with me emotionally.

And you call yourself a man.

	10-02-2005 06:34									#134
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quote: Originally posted by Gatekeeper It appears Dr Strangelove is raining on some folks' party! What the teacher did was wrong. As a legal adult, it's her responsibility to, well, be responsible. Having sex with a 13-year-old isn't being responsible. It's being irresponsible. She should take responsibility for her actions. It's the only responsible course of action. And, no, I don't have an unnatural attraction toward the word "responsible." I believe she did what she did simply because she could. It was a power thing, nothing more, nothing less. And females are eminently capable of raping other people — it's happened to people I know. No, it's not as common as males raping females ... but it does happen, and a victim is a victim. Gatekeeper

Maybe we could get the folks who do the "drink responsibly" commercials for beer companies to do an Ad campaign on this subject.

	10-02-2005 06:40									#135
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon quote: Because either the student is buying her or his grade with sex, or the teacher is extorting sex from the student in exchange for a grade, or the teacher will be unable to objectively evaluate the student. Or in three cases I know of, they fell passionately in love and are now married with children. Oh dear....

And I know of some cases in which a professor got fired because he had an affair with a student. If he doesn't marry her she can turn him in and get him terminated. She doesn't even have to prove that he pressured her or offered her scholastic incentives.

In the three cases you cited was the student taking the professor's course when they became romantically involved?

	10-02-2005 06:47									#136
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quote: In the three cases you cited was the student taking the professor's course when they became romantically involved?

In two cases. But they were smart and fessed up to the Head of Department and arranged so that none of the student's work would be marked by the professor.

If you knew these people you would know that it would have been simply cruel to keep them apart. One couple has been happily married for 25 years.

	10-02-2005 06:51									#137
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I think the kid bragged.

It's the teacher's fault, though. She should have known the kid would brag.

	10-02-2005 06:57									#138
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If the case in question deals with a college prof. and a student of age then thats different. Your talking questions of ethics and grades. When it comes to an adult teacher and a child student thenit brings in the law and parents etc. The teacher should have known better and acted more responsible.

	10-02-2005 06:59									#139
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quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy What if the sex does not affect the grade, or there is no discernable evidence to that end? The burden of proof is on you to show that sex has affected the grade.

Since when do you determine on whom the burden of proof is?

	10-02-2005 07:01									#140
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If a child of a teacher is in her class, there are always allegations of favouritism. How much more so with a lover?

Teachers have a responsibility to their students, and sleeping with one impairs their ability to teach the other students, not just the one whom they sleep with.

This is why they ought to be suspended regardless of their lover's age.

I mean, I used to work a delivery job. If I started sleeping with a customer on a delivery, I don't see myself staying on long with them even though I would be going well beyond the call of duty in the quest for customer satisfaction.

Now, this case has other things that need to be taken into consideration. Just because something is wanted by both parties, doesn't make it morally right. The woman had a husband, and even if she and the boy wanted to sleep together, they would be wrong to indulge because of the promises of the wife to her own husband.

What if she didn't have a husband? There's been plenty of things tossed out about a double standard, as if the virginity of a wife was more valuable than the viriginity of a husband. It makes no sense to me. If you are planning to keep yourself until marriage, that this goal would be more valuable for a girl than for a boy.

Finally, there is the imbalance between a child and an adult. Regardless of the physical age, the differences between these two bring into question the concept of consent between them. This is why I am especially curious to hear Ozzy's take on this, that this inability to give consent, is how these adults prey on children.

In my own life, I would have wanted to sleep with a teacher at that age, but I'd like to think I would have had the presence to turn it down even if it were offered.

	10-02-2005 07:13									#141
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Ya know most of my friends are male and i can say that all of them would have not turned down P**** at the age of 13.
I know my 14 yo old will cause i told him id cut it off if he used it on a female.

	10-02-2005 07:15									#142
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I second BK. I wanna hear what Ozzy has to say about htis.

	10-02-2005 07:48									#143
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quote: Ya know most of my friends are male and i can say that all of them would have not turned down P**** at the age of 13. I know my 14 yo old will cause i told him id cut it off if he used it on a female.

Be prepared if he brings home an immaculately dressed, well spoken boy with lovely dyed locks called "Spink".

	10-02-2005 08:51									#144
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Maybe we could get the folks who do the "drink responsibly" commercials for beer companies to do an Ad campaign on this subject.

	10-02-2005 08:59									#145
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quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy Be prepared if he brings home an immaculately dressed, well spoken boy with lovely dyed locks called "Spink".

Dont thnk that is gonna happen as of this moment he has 3 gfs who drive me insane with phone calls.

	10-02-2005 09:46									#146
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This is a tough case, cause as has been mentioned by almost every single guy here, we would totally hit it.

So, from our standpoint, it's all consensual. I mean also according to this case it was like consensual 30 times.

There is a gigantic difference between the sexual desires of adolescent boys and girls, so that definitley plays into it.

I mean, if you ask grown women if they would have hit it with their teachers back then, they would almost all say, "ewwww gross!!!!"

On the other hand, this woman was an adult and should have been more responsible with this kid.

Plus, how is he supposed to get used to eating tuna when he was raised on caviar!!!

Honestly I would have to learn more about a young man's psychological profile, both short and long term, after it happened, to get a better understanding of the effects of this happening to him.

We know alot about the devastating effects of rape on women, but not hardly anything about men. I would imagine they would be the same. But it's hard for me to put myself in that mindset knowing my desires at his age.

	10-02-2005 10:00									#147
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka So what if it was 27 year old man and 13 year old girl? Oh yeah but boys are horny at the age of 13 so it's not so bad, right? **** her. Burn in hell, rapist psycho *****.

I doubt it's rape, most likely it's statutory rape. IOW, they had sex but he's underage.

	10-02-2005 10:09									#148
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Yes, that's correct, it's statuatory

	10-02-2005 10:12									#149
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quote: I mean, if you ask grown women if they would have hit it with their teachers back then, they would almost all say, "ewwww gross!!!!"

You hang out with some WIEEEERD women. There are plenty of adult women who talk about their hot teachers when they were younger.

Frankly, a lot of the women in relationships like the one seen here have the same desires and show them, at least outwardly.

	10-02-2005 10:15									#150
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Maybe we could get the folks who do the "drink responsibly" commercials for beer companies to do an Ad campaign on this subject.

Or maybe the "drink milk" campaign? Naw, on second thought, I like your idea better!

Gatekeeper