10-02-2005 19:56									#61
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When I was in 1st to about 5th grade I was bullied a lot, but the teachers didn't do anything to stop it... from 5th grade and up I just got "cold", I started to learn to ignore it

Being bullied didn't do my any good though... now I'm working on getting these cold feelings away from me... if I wasn't bullied back then I would have been in a better situation now than what I am

	11-02-2005 06:44									#62
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I remember when I was in high school, all the kids who did their work and got all a's were considered nerds. I stood up for them when they were being bullied in front of me. I even got into 3 fights with both girls and boys(the bullies) for their behavor . Bullying people wrong. i remember one case in point, this guy was a real nice guy however he was very smart and didnt dress lik all the other folks. Some girls started to f*** with him actin like they liked him and wanted to go out with him. I felt so sorryfor the guy I knew the girls were messing with him and he didnt. After bout five minutes i told the girls to cut the S*** and leave him alone. needless to say the guy got pissed at me and i fought two of the girls for being a**holes.

	11-02-2005 08:21									#63
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Given how many people commit suicide with a knife or a bottle of booze because of childhood traumas, I'd say we could do without out it. But what ya going to do other than reprimand the bullies or kick a few out of school to send a message? I'd rather hire a big kid and send him around to bully the bullies (you up for the job Ted?), Poetic justice is a very good teacher

	11-02-2005 08:27									#64
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I used to get bulllied by girls in 7th grade. I'm suprised I didn't kill myself.

	11-02-2005 08:30									#65
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Just because someone wrote an article doesn't make it true. Is there really any proof that the Columbine shooters were ostracised as being probably gay? IIRC one of the Columbine students had been a member of the football team. He had tried out for quarterback the season prior to the incident. After failing to make first string it has been said that he began to quarrel with other team members, especially the kid who beat him for the first string position - who as it happens was the guy who reportedly tried to run him down after a particularily vicious quarrel. The labelling of the future shooters as being gay was probably more a reflection the typical teenages inability to deal with interpersonal conflict than rampant homophobia.
It was also reported that one of the shooters actually had a hate website. From what I've heard these guys would very likely have been more sympatico with Matt Sheppherd's killers than Matt Sheppherd. There dress has been described more like neo-nazi than goth. I might also point out that they chose Hitler's birthday as the day for their revenge. Finally it should be remembered that one of the boys had his girlfriend buy one of the weapons used. How many gay guys have a girlfriend willing to do that for them?
Prior to the massacre these guys had vandalized the home of another student. Shortly before their attack the had been caught attempting to steal a radio from another stident's car.
What I've heard about these two makes me doubt that they were two victimized kids pushed over the edge by cliques of homophobic bullies. In a way they resemble Timothy McVeigh, guys with frustrated ambition who turn their frustration towards another outlet.

	11-02-2005 10:13									#66
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Doc, I was looking for reports of a couple of young men up here who topped themselves after being the victims of bullying involving 'faggots'. What I was looking for wasn't easy to find (go figure, since it wasn't 'big' news). I found that bit about the Columbine kids that still made the point.

	11-02-2005 11:16									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski I remember when I was in high school, all the kids who did their work and got all a's were considered nerds. I stood up for them when they were being bullied in front of me. I even got into 3 fights with both girls and boys(the bullies) for their behavor . Bullying people wrong. i remember one case in point, this guy was a real nice guy however he was very smart and didnt dress lik all the other folks. Some girls started to f*** with him actin like they liked him and wanted to go out with him. I felt so sorryfor the guy I knew the girls were messing with him and he didnt. After bout five minutes i told the girls to cut the S*** and leave him alone. needless to say the guy got pissed at me and i fought two of the girls for being a**holes.

Mrs T. is the ish.

Me you and Pekka could have formed some Justice League or something.

	11-02-2005 11:23									#68
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i picked on a kid named cooper in 4th and 5th grade. we are now best friends.

	11-02-2005 11:25									#69
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Is he the one who suggested porn?

	11-02-2005 11:28									#70
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no. he lives 800 miles now, but were still tight.

	11-02-2005 12:21									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin It depends on the definition of bully. Beating people is wrong but if some hyper protective law maker wants to make name calling bullying then that's just lame. These things should be handled at the lowest possible level because those are the people who best understand the context and circomstances and so are the best informed to make a decision. Draconian rules almost always cause more harm then good by stupidly punishing the not guilty or over punishing the barely guilty.

Yes definately. My experience with these kind of rules is that it makes it really hard to fight back. When I was a kid I never started anything but if anyone else did I made sure that I finished it (usually via a good strong kick to the shins) this usually resulted in my getting suspended etc. at least as much as the bullies or the nerdy kid (me) being the only one that actualy cared about or was deterred at all by the thread of suspension.

	11-02-2005 12:29									#72
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Adults don't have to put up with this crap. I was never bullied at school. A public chair-throwing fight with the biggest guy in my form pretty much put everyone off the idea of messing with me.

Some of the stuff that goes on at high school, particularly among girls, is a disgrace. The teachers know about it, but generally choose to do nothing, and parents don't help either. The first thing that happens when a school punishes a kid is that the kid's parents turn up to complain. This only happens if the kid is a ****. If the kid is basically OK, his parents don't care. weird...

What needs to happen is for schools to come down like Jehovah on students that play these games. The ones that do use the rules to protect themselves using plausible deniability even though everyone knows they're a ****. What needs to happen is throwing away all that and arbitrary punishments for the **** heads.

	11-02-2005 12:58									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Adults don't have to put up with this crap. I was never bullied at school. A public chair-throwing fight with the biggest guy in my form pretty much put everyone off the idea of messing with me. Some of the stuff that goes on at high school, particularly among girls, is a disgrace. The teachers know about it, but generally choose to do nothing, and parents don't help either. The first thing that happens when a school punishes a kid is that the kid's parents turn up to complain. This only happens if the kid is a ****. If the kid is basically OK, his parents don't care. weird... What needs to happen is for schools to come down like Jehovah on students that play these games. The ones that do use the rules to protect themselves using plausible deniability even though everyone knows they're a ****. What needs to happen is throwing away all that and arbitrary punishments for the **** heads.

Right, but knowing American-style "zero tolerance" what will happen is that the guilty, the bystanders and the victims will be punished in roughly equal measure.

	11-02-2005 14:15									#74
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rite of passage?

no. I don't think so.

bullying is harmful. But I don't think most schoold take the right approach to bullying. In fact, there may be no real answer to stop it. it's human nature.

but just because something is human nature, doesn't mean we should celebrate it.

I was bullied when I was younger. Though it was mostly through intimidation. I have never gotten my ass kicked come to think of it. I actually did beat up one kid when I was in elementary school. He wasn't a bully though. I can't remember why I hit him. I just remember the other kids cheering me on. Peer pressure got the better of me .

But anywas, I was still small. And this cuban kid bullied me. He never took my money though. I never had any money. And as I said, he never beat me up. He just intimidated me. Yeah, real scary. I know I have no right to complain. And I don't complain. It wasn't a big deal. But it's still not something I would call a rite of passage. I don't think it's healthy. I'm still intimidated by people. It sucks being a small person . And it's not like I'm quick to make up for it.

	11-02-2005 18:31									#75
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It seems to me that Norway supposedly came up with a sort of system within their schools to combat bullying that has been praised as being highly effective. After Columbine the Clinton administration asked states to try the system in their schools. A few school systems across the country tried it, I don't know if there has been a study of the results. The system requires more active involvement of teachers in the conflicts between students beginning in Kindergarten.

	11-02-2005 18:33									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Proteus_MST ...... and, if done correct you also have "safewords" so that the master knows if he drives it too far.

Is anyone else picturing a scene from"Europtrip" here?

	11-02-2005 23:20									#77
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Bullying blows. I can't imagine it doing anyone any good.

I was fortunate growing up in that the school I went to had a delicate balance of power that was maintained through unwritten rules and carefully placed intimidations towards sh!t disturbers who would throw the wheels of stability out of motion. I didn't know how pervasive bullying could be until I went to University and heard people talk about their experiences. I really feel for anyone here who was bullied.

I grew up in an area of Boston, MA at the intersections of the neighborhoods of Mattapan, Dorchester and the town of Milton. Mattapan and that area of Dorchester are primarily black. That part of Milton is about 50/50 black and white. Its all a very small area so there was only one middle and high school for my district and multiple grammar schools. I went to a grammar school that was probably around 80% black. You would think that would get me bullied alot, but I'm convinced that the concept of bullying is really a white (suburban?) thing, because I never got bullied, and I don't recall anyone else getting bullied either. Sure, people got teased... but it was never serious and more of a joke between friends than bullying.

But when I got to high school, things changed. We got alot of the white kids from the other districts. The racial breakdown was probably 60/40 with the majority being black. You could tell there were alot of kids from the white schools that thought they were hot sh*t because they talked alot of it and were out to assert their dominance in the new school. But the black kids weren't really having much of that... and most of these "would-be bullies" got the crap beaten out of them by the black kids within the first few weeks. It was great in that no bullies were really allowed to arrise, and those that tried learned their lesson pretty fast. It wasn't so much "anti-bully" as it was "anti-bigshot". And we had this trick for people who transfered from other schools who were *******s: we would invite them to a "party", and then we'd pick them up... and drive them out deep into the projects in the middle of the night and leave them there Poor kids would come back to school (sometimes days later) completely traumatized. But it worked, and as a result, everyone got along really well at my school, and we had no jocks and no bullies.

Its interesting though, because we didn't really have nerds either. We had people who had nerd tendencies (like myself), but since there was no one trying to exclude and alienate people, everyone fit happily into the mainstream.

Anyways, bullying

	11-02-2005 23:36									#78
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bullying is worthless.

your parents should be the ones to toughen you up for the real world. they're the ones whose supremely high standards you're supposed to try to live up to and ultimately fail every single ****ing time.

if they're outsourcing that job to some stranger's kid, they're not doing their ****ing job.

	11-02-2005 23:46									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Is there really any proof that the Columbine shooters were ostracised as being probably gay?

There's annectdotal evidence that the shooters had been called "faggots" frequently.

quote: IIRC one of the Columbine students had been a member of the football team.

I was on the football team for two years. Didn't stop people from bullying me.

quote: The labelling of the future shooters as being gay was probably more a reflection the typical teenages inability to deal with interpersonal conflict than rampant homophobia.

It's not about homophobia. They aren't picked of for being gay. They called gay in order to pick on them. Homophobia is the expression by which the bullying is carried out, not the cause. People called me "fag" all the time, knowing damn well I wasn't.

quote: It was also reported that one of the shooters actually had a hate website.

That wouldn't surprise me at all. When you are the object of hatred, you hate others in return. I was filled with hate while I went to school in Batavia. I wanted to crush my tormentors under my foot and make them pay.

quote: What I've heard about these two makes me doubt that they were two victimized kids pushed over the edge by cliques of homophobic bullies.

Kids who are victims of hate act out in all kinds of ways. I destroyed things in my home. My friends vandalized the school. An aquaintence of mine set off a pipe bomb in a forest preserve and later went into a Black bar and pulled out a knife and shouted out, "Come on N******!" Then there are the spazzes.

	12-02-2005 00:41									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Seeker We are destroying our western civilization by creating a race of inoffensive noncombatants.

Gee does that mean we are becoming less caveman like?

	12-02-2005 01:08									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Seeker Currently a hot topic item in Ontario (Canada), with schools and 'zero-tolerance' nonsense.

Its about time. Thinking Bullying makes tough people for a tough world is a bunch of right wing neanderthal crap. PARENTS, principals and teachers should deal with this quickly and firmly. First time incidents should be a warning. Repeated occurences should be dealt with more harshly. We don't need bureaucratic/political overpaid desk jockeys dealing with this, it should be the PARENTS. You wanted the damn kid you deal with responsiblities of raising them. And Teachers are the second line, when they see or hear of incidents occuring, they deal with it fairly and professionally.

	12-02-2005 01:59									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski I remember when I was in high school, all the kids who did their work and got all a's were considered nerds.

And then you get to the point where they realise your grades actually matter and are going to determine whether or not you get into that university you want to go to.
At least, that's when I stopped getting bullied. That and I'd come out, which actually stopped a lot of the queer-calling. Well, that and the fact that our head of sixth form was gay and ripped the biggest strip you've ever seen off someone who called me a fag in front of him. Fond memories

Nobody should ever be subjected to what I went through between the ages of five and sixteen. Bullying doesn't develop strength of character in the victim, and anyone who thinks so is talking sh*t. I had strength of character despite my bullying, instilled through the deeds and words of parents, teachers and friends, and I thank god for each and every one of them who helped me through it.

	12-02-2005 02:00									#83
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I just made sure to either
a) be friends with the bullies
b) have bigger friends than the bullies
c) run track

	12-02-2005 02:39									#84
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I'm still awaiting an answer to my question:

quote: So, what reward did you get out of it?

Or did Seeker, by not responding, tacitly agree that the reward was the satisfaction of seeing some kid scared of him?

	12-02-2005 02:54									#85
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Bullying is out and out unacceptable. I did recently lower myself to almost kick the s*** out of some kid that was messing with my daughter. this kid kept on and on i finally had enough and took the kid bythe collar and asked if he felt like a big man messing with a girl. This child proceeded to cuss me outi n which case i took the beer i was holding and poured it over his head. And tol his momma to come talk to me if she wanted some crap. The kid hasnt messed with my daughter again.

	12-02-2005 02:57									#86
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That's alcohol abuse... I real texan would of chugged the beer and then smashed it over his head and yell "Stop being a bully you little sheit!" Then he'd run of crying only to go off and bully some one else smaller then him and yell "I learned it by watching you!"

	12-02-2005 03:03									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Japher That's alcohol abuse... I real texan would of chugged the beer and then smashed it over his head and yell "Stop being a bully you little sheit!" Then he'd run of crying only to go off and bully some one else smaller then him and yell "I learned it by watching you!"

I didnt say Iwas proud of it After he called me every name in the book i got a little pissed. The beer was hot anyway. Im not proud of that and did call the police on myself cause i knew that i was supposed to be the adult. Needless to say after the police got there they heard the kid talking and no charges were filed.

	12-02-2005 03:08									#88
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Yup, you must of been drunk. Calling the police on yourself!

There are 2 kinds of beer: warm and cold, get use to them both.

	12-02-2005 03:35									#89
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At a recent class reunion (the first in 20 years), my worst highschool bully told me: "Ollie, you rule! You are my idol! You're the best!". Of course is helped a lot that we found out we are both dedicated Rammstein fans, but that's not all. He is a very big mouth, but I outwitted him completely. He told me: Hey Ollie, you have become extremely fat!", and I replied "Yes, I'm so good, and the more Ollie there is, the better the world will be!" Nothing he could say could beat that...

I am now a M.Sc with a well-paid job, a fast, witty mouth and great self-confidence. And the lead singer of a rock band, not to forget. He dreamt of that when he were in highschool. Well, I'm a lead singer, he's not. Tough luck, loser!

While he is not the total loser some others have become, age has humbled and matured him. But one of the other guys in my class is still hopeless. He has children whith 3-4 different women and he has abused all of them (the women). I've seen him do it live on town. I tried to physically stop him once , but he has arms like a big Gorilla male. He escaped my grip like I wasn't even there. His oldest kid is almost adult, and we are only 36.
Late at night, he said he had been in prison for a while. He's not a total ******* though. We had a long discussion about V8 boat engines. Ironically enough, one of the girls in our class worked as a prison guard, and the guy who hosted the party had become a weapons instructor in the police force. He had to be careful.

Another one of the girls in my class worked in WTC New York until Friday 7th September 2001, when she started her maternal leave. Our class reunion last year was the first time she visited Sweden since 1998 or something.

Class of 1984

Last edited by Chemical Ollie on 12-02-2005 at 03:42

	12-02-2005 03:48									#90
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In other words, be kind to the nerdiest guy in your class, because he will become your boss!!! And that's me, *******!!!