13-02-2005 00:26									#31
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Whichever mod deleted all the flames in this thread, thanks

	13-02-2005 04:08									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Solver Well, torture is extreme distress. Psychological torture, therefore, is causing extreme moral distress by attacking what is important to the person - humiliating the person by use of his own beliefs, using other persons close to him, or whatever the case may be. Urinating on a crucifix would not count as psychological torture for most people, but it definitely would for people who are devout Christians.

I don't know how devout I am by your standards, but I would call that blasphemy, not torture. If I was bound or otherwise unable to stop you from doing it, the shame would fall entirely on you. I don't know about Islam's view of such things, but the duress involved in the sexual situations would seem to absolve direct guilt, leaving only a question of ritual cleanliness.

Don't the Muslims have something equivalent to what we Orthodox call oikonomia, making the best of the circumstances and trusting to God's mercy and understanding? If water is unavailable, they perform ritual ablutions with sand, etc. I don't think they believe a come-on from a skanky army chick damns them to hell forever, does it?

I would call such behavior blatant sexual harrassment, certainly, and that's a problem in and of itself, and the actions are as ethnically insensitive as it would be to call them camel-humpers, but it's not to the level of psychological torture. That would be more like prolonged sleep deprivation, that bizarre procedure they developed that simulates the sensation of drowning, stuff like that. The behavior in question is disconcerting and quite possibly inappropriate, but even the relative ethnic taboos don't elevate it to the level of torture, any more than I would call a fraternity hazing "torture," or say that Crichton's Disclosure "contains scenes of torture."

Oh, and I'm a relatively prudish sort myself, and I've been sexually harrassed, albeit to a very mild extent (in middle school it was considered great fun to pinch the white boy's butt as a joke and laugh when he got angry), and I wouldn't compare it to seeing my relatives beaten and raped. Not even close.