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Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
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Feb 2001
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Unhappy  Old Post 11-02-2005 16:46
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quote:
Detainees Accuse Female Interrogators
Pentagon Inquiry Is Said to Confirm Muslims' Accounts of Sexual Tactics at Guantanamo

By Carol D. Leonnig and Dana Priest
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, February 10, 2005; Page A01

Female interrogators repeatedly used sexually suggestive tactics to try to humiliate and pry information from devout Muslim men held at the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, according to a military investigation not yet public and newly declassified accounts from detainees.

The prisoners have told their lawyers, who compiled the accounts, that female interrogators regularly violated Muslim taboos about sex and contact with women. The women rubbed their bodies against the men, wore skimpy clothes in front of them, made sexually explicit remarks and touched them provocatively, at least eight detainees said in documents or through their attorneys.

A wide-ranging Pentagon investigation, which has not yet been released, generally confirms the detainees' allegations, according to a senior Defense Department official familiar with the report. While isolated accounts of such tactics have emerged in recent weeks, the new allegations and the findings of the Pentagon investigation indicate that sexually oriented tactics may have been part of the fabric of Guantanamo interrogations, especially in 2003.

The inquiry uncovered numerous instances in which female interrogators, using dye, pretended to spread menstrual blood on Muslim men, the official said. Separately, in court papers and public statements, three detainees say that women smeared them with blood.

The military investigation of U.S. detention and interrogation practices worldwide, led by Vice Adm. Albert T. Church III, confirmed one case in which an Army interrogator took off her uniform top and paraded around in a tight T-shirt to make a Guantanamo detainee uncomfortable, and other cases in which interrogators touched the detainees suggestively, the senior Pentagon official said.

The official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the report has not yet been made public, said the fake blood was used on Muslim men before they intended to pray, because some Muslims believe that "if a woman touches him prior to prayer, then he's dirty and can't pray." Muslim men also believe that contact with women other than their wives diminishes religious purity.

Defense Department officials said they have reprimanded two female interrogators for such tactics. It is unclear whether military personnel, employees of other agencies or private contractors were involved.

The attorney interviews of detainees are the result of a Supreme Court decision last summer that gave the captives access to lawyers and the opportunity to challenge their incarceration in U.S. courts.

In previous documents, detainees have complained of physical abuse, including routine beatings, painful shackling, and exposure to extremes of hot and cold. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld insisted then that detainees were treated "humanely," and Pentagon officials said terrorists were trained to fabricate torture allegations.

Some of the accounts resemble the sexual aspects of the humiliation of Iraqi prisoners at the U.S. prison at Abu Ghraib. Photographs that became public last year showed a servicewoman there holding naked prisoners on a leash and posing next to a pile of naked prisoners.

Pentagon officials said yesterday that wearing skimpy clothing or engaging in provocative touching and banter would be inappropriate interrogation techniques.

"I don't see that as being authorized by secretary of defense's approved interrogation techniques for Guantanamo," said Col. David McWilliams, a spokesman for the U.S. Southern Command in Miami, which oversees operations at Guantanamo Bay.

McWilliams said it is premature to comment on whether the detainee allegations are credible until a second military investigation that focuses on Guantanamo Bay abuse allegations is complete. The inquiry, which began in early January after the release of documents in which FBI agents said they witnessed abuse, is scheduled to be completed this month.

"That's exactly why we're doing an investigation," McWilliams said. "We're going to establish the facts and the truth."

Church's report found that interrogators used sexually oriented tactics and harassment to shock or offend Muslim prisoners, the senior Pentagon official said. The official said that the military would not condone "sexual activity" during interrogation, but that good interrogators "take initiative and are a little creative."

"They are trying to find the key that will get someone to talk to them. Using things that are culturally repulsive is okay as long as it doesn't extend to something prohibited by the Geneva Conventions."

Attorneys for detainees scoffed at the Pentagon's insistence that the military can fairly investigate its own personnel. They noted that the Defense Department last fall initially dismissed torture allegations, insisting that detainees were trained at terrorist camps to lodge false claims.

Even detainee lawyers doubted that interrogators would spread menstrual blood on prisoners when a recently released British detainee first made the allegation in early 2004. A month ago, a Pentagon spokesman confirmed it had verbally reprimanded one female interrogator who, in early 2003, had smeared red dye from a marker on a detainee's shirt and told him it was blood.

In a yet-to-be-published book, former Army translator Erik Saar said he saw a female interrogator smear red dye on a Saudi man's face, telling him it was blood. Saar's account was first reported by the Associated Press last month. And Mamdouh Habib, an Australian man released from Guantanamo Bay last month, said he was strapped down while a woman told him she was "menstruating" on his face.

One lawyer, Marc Falkoff, said in an interview that when a Yemeni client told him a few weeks ago about an incident involving menstrual blood, "I almost didn't even write it down." He said: "It seemed crazy, like something out of a horror movie or a John Waters film. Now it doesn't seem ludicrous at all."

Some of the newly declassified accounts of detainees evoke scenes from a rock music video. German detainee Murat Kurnaz told his lawyer that three women in lacy bras and panties strutted into the interrogation room where he was sitting in chains. They cooed about how attractive he was and suggested "they could have some fun," he said.

When Kurnaz averted his eyes, he said, one woman sat on his lap, another rubbed her breasts against his back and massaged his chest and a third squatted near his crotch. He head-butted the woman behind him, he said, knocking her off him. All three ran out and a team of soldiers stormed in and beat him, he said.

Detainee lawyers likened the tactics to Nazis shaving the beards of orthodox Jews or artists dunking a crucifix in urine to shock Christians. "They're exploiting religious beliefs to break them down, to destroy them," said Michael Ratner of the Center for Constitutional Rights, which represents several dozen detainees. "What they're doing, it reminds me of a pornographic Web site -- it's like the fantasy of all these S&M clubs."

Falkoff said some of his clients have also been threatened with rape by male interrogators.

One soldier told another detainee, Muktar Warafi, that he had to start telling the truth or he would be raped, according to Falkoff's notes of the interview. When he left the room, another person immediately came into the room and told Warafi: "That interrogator is new and doesn't know the rules. We apologize on his behalf. Now let's talk."

Yasein Esmail, a Yemeni detainee, said he had been interrogated more than 100 times since being "kidnapped" in a marketplace in Kabul, Afghanistan, and brought to Guantanamo Bay. He recounted to his lawyer that when he refused to talk in one interview, a female soldier entered wearing a tight T-shirt.

"Why aren't you married?" she reportedly asked Esmail. "You are a young man and have needs. What do you like?"

Esmail said "she bent down with her breasts on the table and her legs almost touching" him. "Are you going to talk," she asked, "or are we going to do this for six hours?"

Researcher Julie Tate contributed to this report.

© 2005 The Washington Post Company

Proteus_MST is offline Proteus_MST
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Dec 2001
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  Old Post 11-02-2005 17:54
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quote:

Some of the newly declassified accounts of detainees evoke scenes from a rock music video. German detainee Murat Kurnaz told his lawyer that three women in lacy bras and panties strutted into the interrogation room where he was sitting in chains. They cooed about how attractive he was and suggested "they could have some fun," he said.

When Kurnaz averted his eyes, he said, one woman sat on his lap, another rubbed her breasts against his back and massaged his chest and a third squatted near his crotch.
...

...
He recounted to his lawyer that when he refused to talk in one interview, a female soldier entered wearing a tight T-shirt.

"Why aren't you married?" she reportedly asked Esmail. "You are a young man and have needs. What do you like?"

Esmail said "she bent down with her breasts on the table and her legs almost touching" him. "Are you going to talk," she asked, "or are we going to do this for six hours?"


Oh yeah, please interrogate me



NOW


Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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Feb 2001
time: 00:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 18:01
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This is the Ted Striker school of interrogation

Pekka is offline Pekka
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Feb 2002
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  Old Post 11-02-2005 18:05
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Yes I hope they interrogate all of you. Then again, you do realize that in case it was you there, they wouldn't use sex to get you, because it's not an issue to us like that. The only sex they would use is big bubba pumping your magic cave and you sucking on his candy cane.

But I guess you already signed up for it. Good luck.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
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Oct 2001
time: 14:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 19:08
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More "torture", I see. Shame on America.

Dis is offline Dis
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Feb 2000
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  Old Post 11-02-2005 23:53 Visit Dis's homepage!
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I'm sorry, but no matter what religion you are, I fail to see how this could bother anyone.

sign me up.

Odin is offline Odin
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Sep 2000
time: 23:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 00:38
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Curing the Arab's sexual repression:

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Jun 2000
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  Old Post 12-02-2005 00:43 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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My gives a **** is broken. Next they'll accusses interogators of shouting at them.

Zkribbler is offline Zkribbler
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Feb 1999
time: 21:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 00:45
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I wonder if this was the type of "service" these women thought they'd be rendering for this country when they enlisted.

Be ... all the 'ho you can be ... in the Army!

Pekka is offline Pekka
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Feb 2002
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  Old Post 12-02-2005 01:08
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che, that's a good point. Using sex like that is psychological pressure that I see as acceptable. I mean, what's the interrogation going to be, if ALL kinds of .. offensive behaviour etc is not allowed? Bring tea and cookies? While this might offend the ones being interrogated, too bad, but it's not torture, it's psychological interrogation, plus it doesn't drive you insane, it just might humiliate your believes but then again that was kind of the point. My point is, this is totally acceptable in my books, and shouldn't be a problem and if they whine about it, **** how about nto getting clean socks every saturday, that must beother some people too.. Jeesh.. some limits yeah but those limits should be put there by someone else than the ones being interrogated. Going with the weakest link brings the game down, not to mention they play for the other team!

Agathon is offline Agathon
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Dec 2002
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  Old Post 12-02-2005 01:39
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Come on Kuci, you don't really mean this. I feel sorry for the Muslims, given that most of these women probably look like Lynndie England.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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Feb 2001
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  Old Post 12-02-2005 01:41
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You're right, we need to see what they look like. Pictures

Micha is offline Micha

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Technical University of Ilmenau, Germany
Oct 2002
time: 06:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 01:43
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OTOH, Jews would maybe complain a bit more if they were forced to eat non-kosher meat. While I wouldn´t have a problem with that.

Depends on what you believe, since for them such interrogation ruins the discipline they had for all their life.

Imagine you would have done an oath to not have sexual contact to anyone out of marriage - and you would in return get something whoooohoooo...
Now at the age of 50, some hot female comes and "interrogates" you using sexual behaviour. Because of this the past 50 years of torture (and we all know it´s torture) were buggered. You wouldn´t get anything now, because you broke your oath.

Of course I find it ludicrous, but for them it might be quite... depressing...

Sandman is offline Sandman
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Aug 2001
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  Old Post 12-02-2005 01:51
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quote:
The inquiry uncovered numerous instances in which female interrogators, using dye, pretended to spread menstrual blood on Muslim men, the official said. Separately, in court papers and public statements, three detainees say that women smeared them with blood.


Charming.

Pekka is offline Pekka
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Feb 2002
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  Old Post 12-02-2005 01:57
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MIcha, I don't think it's like that at all. I believe the fundies to be kind of ashamed or at least uncomfortable even with their own nudity. That's a TABOO in Islam, a total one. They have oppressed those things, you know I don't think they really even want to bone the interrogators. They just feel humiliated being made fun of like that. I don't think they would jump on the gun even if Allah was looking away you know. It's not that 'tell me and you'll get sex big boy!' it's more like 'ok don't talk but I'll be talking dirty to you and flashing me nippers to you later on some more you dirty man'. You know.. I don't think it's even sexual for them at all. Just humiliating.

Pekka is offline Pekka
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Feb 2002
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  Old Post 12-02-2005 02:04
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Even more so, when the interrogators are your enemy. They are enemy, and they don't pay the respect to give you a male interrogator. You think they think about hitting it? No they don't.. if they gave the man the sexiest interrogator who would say 'now you can do anything you want to do with me, there will be no consequneces and no one will know', I put my money on she being strangled to death in less than 40 seconds and no sex.

Even westerners, do you think in case of war, that all the rapes happening in enemy territory with enemy women, that it's about sex? For some it might be, but ot most it's hatred and power. Of course inside that package there's sexual pleasure as well, but most rapes are not happening because someone wants to hit it, but because someone wants to RAPE. Not have sex. It's like if the woman then get pregnant, with enemy seed in it, you tell me the local guys will hit it. No, they will loathe the woman. It's screwed up, but that's how it's going down. Don't under estimate the hatred, beliefs and mix it up with our perversions of fantasizing about hitting gorgeous enemy interrogator. Inreal life it wouldn't happen.

Chemical Ollie is offline Chemical Ollie
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Jan 2002
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  Old Post 12-02-2005 02:28
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Didn't SS use these methods too? Or do I mix them up with KGB?

Provost Harrison is offline Provost Harrison
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Feb 2000
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  Old Post 12-02-2005 03:46
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quote:
Esmail said "she bent down with her breasts on the table and her legs almost touching" him. "Are you going to talk," she asked, "or are we going to do this for six hours?"


My reply to that would be "Make it twelve and you've got a deal!" Sheesh, are Al Qaeda all homosexual or something?

korn469 is offline korn469
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Apr 1999
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  Old Post 12-02-2005 03:53
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Esmail said "she bent down with her breasts on the table and her legs almost touching" him. "Are you going to talk," she asked, "or are we going to do this for six hours?"


six hours for me please!

Agathon is offline Agathon
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Dec 2002
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  Old Post 12-02-2005 04:28
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Did I see someone suggest that join Al Qaeda for the sex benefits?

Everyone knows that you only get the virgins after martyrdom. That sucks from my POV.

Solver is offline Solver
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Latvia, Riga
Sep 2000
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  Old Post 12-02-2005 21:29 Visit Solver<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Pekka, so this psychological torture is acceptable? The reason that the interrogators are using sex here is, obviously, because it's the most humiliating thing to these men. As it has been said, it's the same as shocking Christians by urinating on a crucifix. You know, if they take your sister and beat and rape her in front of you unless you cooperate, it's also psychological torture - there's no physical harm done to you. Would that be acceptable, too? I know it'd work damn well on me...

Last edited by Solver on 13-02-2005 at 00:27

Elok is offline Elok
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  Old Post 12-02-2005 22:03
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Uh, if you overlook the fact that it will traumatize the sister, who is presumptively innocent of any wrongdoing? I don't get your example there.

Solver is offline Solver
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But it still would fall under psychological torture - in regards to him.

alva is offline alva
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Sep 2001
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  Old Post 12-02-2005 22:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
Did I see someone suggest that join Al Qaeda for the sex benefits?

Everyone knows that you only get the virgins after martyrdom. That sucks from my POV.


...or not as the case may be.

Dis is offline Dis
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
Come on Kuci, you don't really mean this. I feel sorry for the Muslims, given that most of these women probably look like Lynndie England.


Lyndie England. . I'd hit it.

DanS is offline DanS
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Kickball Capital of the World
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quote:
But it still would fall under psychological torture - in regards to him.


I think you have a rather expansive notion of "torture."

Solver is offline Solver
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I fail to see how my example would not be torture...

BeBro is offline BeBro
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Mar 2000
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  Old Post 13-02-2005 00:06 Visit BeBro's homepage!
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If we think how the fundies treat women it must be pretty insulting for them. Reminds me on the Ferengi in star trek

Is it torture - no idea. To be honest I also do not care....but making them feel uncomfortable or insecure does not seem out of line to me.....real torture would be another thing, of course. I only find some of the details disgusting (the blood thing etc.). This should stop IMO.

DanS is offline DanS
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quote:
I fail to see how my example would not be torture...


You made a broader statement about "psychological torture" -- your opinion wasn't confined to your example...

Solver is offline Solver
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Well, torture is extreme distress. Psychological torture, therefore, is causing extreme moral distress by attacking what is important to the person - humiliating the person by use of his own beliefs, using other persons close to him, or whatever the case may be. Urinating on a crucifix would not count as psychological torture for most people, but it definitely would for people who are devout Christians.

 
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