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Sprayber is offline Sprayber

Emperor
Dixie
Oct 2000
time: 23:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 17:45
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No not the imperialists in the West


quote:
BEIJING (AFP) - Road builders demolished a large section of China's World Heritage-listed Great Wall last month in an indication of the perilous state of one of the world's best known landmarks, state media said.

Almost 100 meters (333 feet) of the wall in northern Ningxia autonomous region was levelled in two overnight raids by construction workers who used the material to pave a road, the Ningxia Daily said.

The destroyed area near Zhongwei city was constructed during the Ming Dynasty (1368-1644) in an region known as "the Great Wall Museum" because of the profusion of rammed earth sections of the wall.

Less than 2,500 kilometers (1,500 miles) remain of the 6,300 kilometer long wall that was first built in the Qin Dynasty (221-206 BC). It was rebuilt in the Ming Dynasty to keep out northern tribes threatening the Chinese heartland.

Zhongwei's public security bureau is investigating the case and has vowed that those responsible will be forced to rebuild what they demolished, the report said.

It is not the first time the wall has been plundered for building materials in Nixgxia. Last year, a 400 metre (1,320 feet) section disappeared with the culprits never found.

Dong Yaohui, vice president of the China Great Wall Academy, said punishments were too lax and needed to be tightened.

He was quoted as saying that several years ago a man who plundered the wall only received an 80,000 yuan (9,666) fine, amounting to less than it would have cost to buy legal construction materials, proving no deterrent.

The Great Wall is under such serious threat from human development across China that the central government last year took the drastic step of seizing control of it from local governments.

Currently, the responsibility of protecting the wall, which stretches across several provinces and municipalities, is down to different local authorities.

The wall was listed on the United Nations (news - web sites)' prestigious World Heritage List in 1987, but far from ensuring its preservation critics argue that it has only succeeded in shrouding it in a "false cloak of security".


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...ritagegreatwall

axi is offline axi
Prince
Athens Greece
Sep 1999
time: 07:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 18:22
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This is not new under the sun. The Egyptian villagers have stripped the shiny limestone cover off the pyramids. Ancient temples in Greece have been raided during the Turkocracy and revolution to get the led reinforcements out of their pillars, for use in making bullets.

DaShi is offline DaShi
Prince
The Taste of Japan
Sep 2000
time: 05:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 18:43
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Suffering from ads?

There's plenty more Wall.

Last Conformist is offline Last Conformist
King
of Calakmul
Jul 2003
time: 06:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 19:12
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quote:
Originally posted by axi
This is not new under the sun. The Egyptian villagers have stripped the shiny limestone cover off the pyramids. Ancient temples in Greece have been raided during the Turkocracy and revolution to get the led reinforcements out of their pillars, for use in making bullets.

Perhaps a myth, but I'm told a Swedish mercenary commander used the Parthenon for cannon target practice during one of the Turco-Venetian wars.

Sprayber is offline Sprayber

Emperor
Dixie
Oct 2000
time: 23:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 19:16
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quote:
Originally posted by axi
This is not new under the sun. The Egyptian villagers have stripped the shiny limestone cover off the pyramids. Ancient temples in Greece have been raided during the Turkocracy and revolution to get the led reinforcements out of their pillars, for use in making bullets.


If they cannot get material to build a road and have to strip the wall then that doesn't speak very highly of a modernized China.....

then again it may be a simple matter of laziness or greed.

St Leo is offline St Leo
King of Scenario League
Member of the Apolyton Social Democratic Party
Jul 2005
time: 00:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 20:46 Visit St Leo<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Last Conformist
Perhaps a myth, but I'm told a Swedish mercenary commander used the Parthenon for cannon target practice during one of the Turco-Venetian wars.


Well, Napoleon used the Sphynx for musket target practice. Lousy Corsican.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

Donate to the Red Cross
The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 22:18
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quote:

Dong Yaohui, vice president of the China Great Wall Academy, said punishments were too lax and needed to be tightened.




Not only the workers need to face severe sentences, but the companies they work for must also face serious punishments.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 22:22 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by St Leo
quote:
Originally posted by Last Conformist
Perhaps a myth, but I'm told a Swedish mercenary commander used the Parthenon for cannon target practice during one of the Turco-Venetian wars.


Well, Napoleon used the Sphynx for musket target practice. Lousy Corsican.


Both are myths.

In the case of the Parthenon, the Turks were using it as an ammo dump, and a Venentian shell landed in it. BOOM!

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 22:26
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Put an end to popups!

Lies

Richelieu is offline Richelieu
Warlord
Gatineau
Dec 2001
time: 00:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 23:10
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quote:
Originally posted by St Leo
[q] [SIZE=1] Originally posted by Last Conformist
Well, Napoleon used the Sphynx for musket target practice. Lousy Corsican.


Lousy shot, anyway...

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 00:02 Visit Dis's homepage!
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I for sure thought this would be some thread denouncing the west.

Zkribbler is offline Zkribbler
King
Los Angeles, CA, USA
Feb 1999
time: 21:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 00:33
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quote:

Zhongwei's public security bureau is investigating the case and has vowed that those responsible will be forced to rebuild what they demolished, the report said.


Cool. In the original, dead workers were used as human mortar. I wonder how historically accurate the punishment will be?

DaShi is offline DaShi
Prince
The Taste of Japan
Sep 2000
time: 05:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 00:54
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Probably just a newspaper story saying there were punishments, when nothing was done.

Heresson is offline Heresson
King
of frogs
Jun 2000
time: 06:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 22:13
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Plundering China's Heritage

DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
"My god, it's full of peas..."
Jul 2002
time: 21:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 22:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Sprayber


If they cannot get material to build a road and have to strip the wall then that doesn't speak very highly of a modernized China.....

then again it may be a simple matter of laziness or greed.


That's what happened the last time this was in the news; slapped with a fine that was still more cost-effective than just buying the damn materials in the first place.

mindseye is offline mindseye
King
A Yankee living in Shanghai
Apr 1999
time: 13:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 23:40
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This is from the last go-round ...

quote:
Vandalism and 'Improvements' Mar Great Wall
By ELISABETH ROSENTHAL
New York Times, June 12, 2003


A CUIZHUANG, China, June 6 — Look up at any hill crest around this remote village and there looms the Great Wall, China's most cherished landmark, the elegant brown stones of its crumbling face and watchtowers receding majestically into the distance.

In this part of Hebei Province the Bai Yangyu Great Wall site is not only the backdrop to every vista, it is also a living relic that serves as a playground for village children, or a source of stones when houses need repair.

But wait! Is that a giant golden laughing Buddha sidling up against the Wall? Are those plastic deer adorning one of its walking trails?

In one section its brown stones have been replaced by a slick-looking limestone paste, part of a misguided local attempt at "renovating" the ancient Wall to bring tourism into this poor area.

"The new part is not very pretty, because it doesn't look one bit like the Great Wall," said Qin Haibin, a local fifth grader, candid as only an 11-year-old can be. "It looks like a lost dragon here."

In many areas along its long run, the Great Wall is suffering , and the primary culprit is man. During a six-week period late last year, Chinese experts surveyed 101 sites along the Wall and were alarmed at what they found.

In many areas erosion has weathered the Wall and sand has buried it, especially in China's western regions, where the Wall is largely constructed of mud. But in the eastern portion of the Wall, human activities caused most damage.

At one site near Beijing its bricks were covered with graffiti. In another location in Hebei Province, the Great Wall was picked apart to provide stones for a road. In Inner Mongolia it was bulldozed to make way for construction.

In many locations like Bai Yangyu, it has been gussied up to attract tourists by officials who regard the Great Wall as, well, boring and old.

"Human activity is the main reason for damage to the Wall," Zhang Jun, an engineer with the State Forestry Bureau reported at a recent conference.

The Great Wall traverses nine provinces and 100 counties, and "the majority lack awareness about the need for Wall protection, about the importance of the Wall," said Dong Yaohui, the secretary of the China Great Wall Society, who was on the team that investigated the sites last year.

Mr. Dong made his first foray down the length of the Wall — built to protect China's northern border — in 15 months beginning in 1984; he has been devoted to itever since.

"That is why we are calling for legislation to protect the Wall," Mr. Dong said. "If people know they will bear criminal responsibility for intentionally tearing down the Wall or damaging it, say even one year in jail, the next time they'll think twice."

For conservationists the Wall presents a unique challenge, a mammoth artifact that is far too large to place in a museum to ensure its safety. Its upkeep is largely the responsibility of the thousands of villages that it touches, with little national direction.

In most places it remains crumbling and untouched. But for many of the poor towns through which it runs, generating income far outstrips Wall preservation as a local concern.

In Zhangjiakou, about 100 miles northwest of Beijing, a long stretch of Wall has been dismantled stone by stone in the last two years at the hands of entrepreneurial local peasants. A construction company was building a road nearby and offered to pay 15 yuan, about $2, for each tractor load of stones or bricks delivered.

But in this eroded part of northern China, the Wall provided virtually the only source for this raw material. A 1,000-yard section of Wall slowly disappeared.

"This was a large-scale and long-term demolition, but the authorities weren't even aware," Mr. Dong said. "So we have to strengthen local management, since it may well be happening elsewhere."

Likewise, outside Baotou in Inner Mongolia a developer recently demolished a 2,000-year-old section of the Wall to make way for a $12 million road building project. The fine? Only $10,000, for a piece of history irretrievably lost.

But to preservationists, perhaps most disturbing have been the many misguided attempts to develop the Wall for tourism, often with little respect for its original form.

In a country where ancients relics are plentiful, local officials often show little devotion to crumbling treasures and instead are inclined to "improve" them. Several years back, the worlds largest Buddha, at Leshan in Sichuan Province, was given a garish coat of paint to make it look fresher and newer.

Local governments at various points along the Wall have decorated and refashioned it, sometimes resulting in Disney-like creations that evoke Mickey more than Ming.

At Shanhaiguan, where the Great Wall meets the Bohai Sea, the Wall was so weathered that developers essentially started afresh, creating an ersatz Great Wall of shiny gray bricks. Crowded with tourists, it has more of the feel of a and Enchanted Castle, with bright banners fluttering in the sea breeze and a huge brick maze for those who are bored.

Inspired by such successes, officials in the village of Da Cuizhuang, hoped to milk cash from their bit of history, which includes one of the rare Wall sections paved in marble.

Unfortunately, when they started construction in 2002 they had neither the experience nor financing for such a complex endeavor, and only remnants of their failed efforts now remain, such as a wide paved road called Bai Yangyu Tourism Avenue, and little crenelated models of the Great Wall that line bridges and disguise sewer grates.

When the China Great Wall Investigative Trip set down for a look at Bai Yangyu, they were horrified by what they saw.

Most conspicuous was a 100-yard stretch of stark white wall high up on a ridge. As it snakes incongruously between two of the crumbling ancient brown guard towers, it most resembles a suburban garden partition.

The Great Wall team immediately complained to officials from the Qian An County County Culture Bureau, who agreed to halt the project. It will resume under central government guidance. The governments in Beijing and Hebei Province have been working on regulations to manage and protect the Wall. These include fines for littering and writing on the Wall, as well as a ban on building facilities on it.

But even conservationists recognize the economic need to develop parts of the Wall, which has given rise to chair lifts and toboggan slides at the sites outside Beijing.

"For me it would be better not to build such things," Mr. Dong said, "but this is a way to gain economic return, and there is a need to accommodate children and the elderly."

Attachment: new wall.jpg
This has been downloaded 29 time(s).

mindseye is offline mindseye
King
A Yankee living in Shanghai
Apr 1999
time: 13:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 23:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Sprayber

then again it may be a simple matter of laziness or greed.

Greed ... combined with absolute disregard for the welfare of anyone you don't know.

That combination is unfortunately quite common in China.

Hope it changes as development continues.

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