12-02-2005 06:36									#61
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc He's a Syrian citizen.

He fled Syria at the tender age of 16.

I suppose it would have been all right for us to deport dual US/Iraqi citizens to Iraq in 1995 if they ever made a transfer at Pearson intl. even if they had committed no crime?

	12-02-2005 06:39									#62
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark oh, and we shouldnt have nabbed that Syrian canadian fellow who was passing through NY - whatever intell they may have gotten is certainly not worth the hubbub this has created with the Canadians, whose help we need on many other things.

How about you simply ****ing deported him to CANADA instead of ****ing SYRIA, somewhere he hadn't been in decades and which would almost certainly not treat him properly.

If you had the choice, deporting him to a country which uses torture at the drop of a hat was just plain ****ing wrong.

	12-02-2005 06:42									#63
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Ugh. I can't even read the whole thread. I can't believe what some people are saying.

Thanks for the information Ramo.

	12-02-2005 06:42									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Japher Sounds like a made for TV movie.

Yeah. Too bad the **** your government's been doing for the last 3 years has all too often sounded like bad fiction instead of the actions of a constitutional democracy.

	12-02-2005 06:52									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo I write "Blackat is being as ass" because it's assholish behavior to assume that just because someone criticizes Bush's torture by proxy, he supports Syrian torture. Just making that clear. It's bad manners, and it pisses people off - hence the comment. You're just trying to change the subject because Bush's pro-torture policies are being criticized. That's quite clear.

I have not for a moment said that Syrian torture in any way are aceptable. I have even clearly stated that both Denmark and US has done wrong in extradiction cases, but that still doesn't change my primary claim - this thread isn't about the victims - it is Bushbashing.

quote: As for exposing Syrian torture, it's already exposed. Everyone knows. Everyone doesn't like it. "Exposing" Syrian torture is along the lines of "exposing" the Holocaust. I'm sure that a thread only about Syrian torture wouldn't have very much discussion, just a bunch of people agreeing.

Please read my response to Imran.

quote: You are threadjacking, this thread is about a specific set of policies outlined in the article. As I said, you can make another thread only about Syrian torture, or sanctimonious whining, or whatever you want. I'm not opposed to that in any way. I just don't want said sanctimonious whining to clutter my thread.

I would have expected you as the first to make such threads if you were sincere, but you haven't. You are using this as a part of your Bushhate and totally ignoring the pains that people has to suffer in countries as Syria.

I am not threadjacking anything, because I don't deny that failures has been made, but I will not ignore whom are really to be blamed witch you totaly ignore - actually, it is you that diminishes "holocaust" (strange - I haven't claimed that holocaust didn't happend, which i am certan has - yet state that i think otherwise). IU think that it is nasty of you.

	12-02-2005 07:01									#66
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I'm just about sick of people talking about Bushbashing. Everytime some news comes out about Bush to put him in an even worse light there is sure to be someone to claim that people do nothing but Bushbash. What a bunch of crap?

	12-02-2005 07:10									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious I'm just about sick of people talking about Bushbashing. Everytime some news comes out about Bush to put him in an even worse light there is sure to be someone to claim that people do nothing but Bushbash. What a bunch of crap?

Well, I'm just as sick as you of the fact that some people think that Bush is a idiot because he is a repub and isn't perfect in english.

	12-02-2005 07:15									#68
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quote: I would have expected you as the first to make such threads if you were sincere, but you haven't. You are using this as a part of your Bushhate and totally ignoring the pains that people has to suffer in countries as Syria.

This is idiotic.

	12-02-2005 07:16									#69
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse quote: I would have expected you as the first to make such threads if you were sincere, but you haven't. You are using this as a part of your Bushhate and totally ignoring the pains that people has to suffer in countries as Syria. This is idiotic.

Yet true. Ramo rarely does anything without the theme.

	12-02-2005 07:17									#70
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Is that post supposed to make some sort of sense?

	12-02-2005 07:20									#71
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Is that post supposed to make some sort of sense?

Whatever chief. The records on repeat today. Someone just bothered to call Ramo out. It's up to him to defend his point of view. Oh yeah, it's also up to him to try and be civil about it, which he hasn't.

Alright, I said my piece.

	12-02-2005 07:21									#72
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I'm glad to see that the strongest defense of the US government's actions in the Arar case presented so far in this thread is: "the US isn't as bad as SYRIA"

Do you people ****ing hear yourselves?

	12-02-2005 07:21									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Harry Tuttle Whatever chief. The records on repeat today. Someone just bothered to call Ramo out. It's up to him to defend his point of view. Oh yeah, it's also up to him to try and be civil about it, which he hasn't. Alright, I said my piece.

I simply don't understand what you were trying to say, dude.

Your post doesn't parse.

	12-02-2005 07:24									#74
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quote: Originally posted by BlackCat Well, I'm just as sick as you of the fact that some people think that Bush is a idiot because he is a repub and isn't perfect in english.

We knew he was a stupid repug long ago. This has gone way beyond that.

	12-02-2005 07:33									#75
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Kid : Have you ever wondered why you are sometimes ignored ?

Anyway, the theme is torture; is US always to blame and especially are Bush the real devil ?

	12-02-2005 07:35									#76
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quote: Yet true. Ramo rarely does anything without the theme.

Ok, so because most of my political threads are critical of Bush in some way, I don't care about torture by other regimes (nevermind that Bush controls the country that I live in, am most informed about, is the epicenter of world politics, have the strongest feeling towards, and have the strongest hope of making a difference in)? Sorry, but that's pretty damn idiotic. It's even more idiotic for BlackCat since I've never discussed anything with him before.

quote: Whatever chief. The records on repeat today. Someone just bothered to call Ramo out. It's up to him to defend his point of view. Oh yeah, it's also up to him to try and be civil about it, which he hasn't. Alright, I said my piece.

Sorry if I'm not civil about ad hominens. I made a thread just for sanctimony, so go for it dude.

	12-02-2005 07:36									#77
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quote: Originally posted by BlackCat Kid : Have you ever wondered why you are sometimes ignored ?

Because I don't claim that everytime someone says something about Bush that they are Bushbashing?

quote: Anyway, the theme is torture; is US always to blame and especially are Bush the real devil ?

The theme is Bush. So what. People are very disturbed about him. Bushbashing is bringing up every little stupid thing he says. This isn't Bushbashing. It's a legitimate concern.

	12-02-2005 07:40									#78
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What's even funnier here is that I really didn't give a flying **** in November who won the US election. But my concern over this issue must be because I'm bashing Bush, and must have nothing to do with the fact that a supposedly friendly country is shipping our citizens off to be tortured for no reason other than the fact that they don't like how they look. If I was of Arabic descent and was a citizen of a Western nation I wouldn't step a foot near the US right now. Lord knows where they might ship me off to, even if I'd violated no laws (as Mr. Arar had not).

	12-02-2005 07:44									#79
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Just try to discuss something without attacking the other posters. Really, you guys can go at it, but anytime you start bashing the other guy it just makes you look like you're more interested in picking a fight.

	12-02-2005 07:49									#80
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I was discussing the issues with lotm. We were having a civil conversation. I responded to BC's ad hominens in kind.

	12-02-2005 07:56									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Because I don't claim that everytime someone says something about Bush that they are Bushbashing?

Nope, because of your statemens .

The theme is Bush. So what. People are very disturbed about him. Bushbashing is bringing up every little stupid thing he says. This isn't Bushbashing. It's a legitimate concern. [/QUOTE]

That depends how you present it. I don't mind a bit if someone states that US are doing wrong sending back refugees to states doing torture, but that was not theway it was presented - it was stated that Bush-the-idiot was the person to blame.

	12-02-2005 08:07									#82
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quote: Originally posted by BlackCat it was stated that Bush-the-idiot was the person to blame.

What the hell? Who the hell cares? I'm just dumbfounded that someone would be upset about someone else saying something bad about Bush when there is the subject of torure at hand. It just ****ing amazes me.

	12-02-2005 12:18									#83
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quote: BlackCat is being an ass

	12-02-2005 12:36									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Ok, sending terror suspects to places like Syria where there's no due process is a threat to liberty everywhere. That's ultimately the point.

Perhaps we should just eliminate Syria and have done with it.

	12-02-2005 13:00									#85
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Let's see if I understand this.

Syria, a state perennially on our shitlist, that has assisted in transporting foreign fighters into Iraq to kill our troops, that is suspected of harboring WMDs and participating in nuclear weapon research, that has had several minor clashes with us on the Iraq border, and that supports Hezbollah, a terrorist organization that has killed US troops and civilians...

...is where we are sending suspected terrorists to be interrogated?

For us?

	12-02-2005 13:02									#86
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Tell me, when we caught Soviet spies during the cold war, did we also have our good friends in East Germany work them over for us?

	12-02-2005 14:06									#87
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk Let's see if I understand this. Syria, a state perennially on our shitlist, that has assisted in transporting foreign fighters into Iraq to kill our troops, that is suspected of harboring WMDs and participating in nuclear weapon research, that has had several minor clashes with us on the Iraq border, and that supports Hezbollah, a terrorist organization that has killed US troops and civilians... ...is where we are sending suspected terrorists to be interrogated? For us?

I don't know. Why did it happen, then?

	12-02-2005 14:10									#88
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Immigration blunder? It wouldn't be the first time.

	12-02-2005 14:23									#89
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I'm not saying it dosen't happen. I just don't see it happening with Syria.

	12-02-2005 15:52									#90
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk Immigration blunder? It wouldn't be the first time.

The dude was carrying a Canadian passport, man

The US authorities were well aware of the fact that he was Canadian. There was no apology and no help from them when we got him back either.

In fact, our PM recently had to work to get a promise that the US wouldn't do something like that again without informing us first

I still say we should ship a dual US-Kraplakistan citizen off to the shithole he came from in order to be tortured as payment