14-02-2005 00:24									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident how hard is it to use a ****ing condom? It's reasons like this why this disease spreads and becomes worse.

No its not there are some people out there that go out knowing they have the disease and do what they can to share the wealth such as getting past the donating blood screens. There are more ways to transfer this disease then im willing to type.

	14-02-2005 01:34									#32
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plague, ch-5 receptors, hiv, look it up

	14-02-2005 01:56									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Vesayen I've been unable to find anything about this online.... if this is true... OY. Anyone got a link to a "legitamite" news source with this info?

The New York Times, legitimate enough for you ? :P

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/news...ealth-hiv.html?

	14-02-2005 02:12									#34
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quote: Originally posted by VJ If this is gonna be any similar to what has happened to antibiotics, the virus is going to become resistant eventually to those drugs, too; am I correct?

Mmm, in my admittedly limited understanding, these drugs don't work on the virus directly as such, they interfere with the cell's ability to transcribe RNA, effectively making the cell ignore the virus's instructions. The nasty side effects of anti-retrovirals are due to the natural consequences of screwing with biology on a cellular level...they're only valuable as the lesser of two evils. So I don't get how people could be "disguising the symptoms" with anti-retrovirals and going out and having sex. I'd read that the drugs have rather plain side effects, including big unsightly swellings, and are sufficiently non-fun to live with that they won't put you in the mood for sex. Fo gigure.

Anyway, the reason bacteria become resistant to antibiotics, which don't do a thing against viruses, is that they directly attack the microbe's function, which the germs adapt to as all populations will to attacks. Vaccinations, the traditional weapon against viruses, essentially train the host to recognize a virus by pitting it against a harmless relative, kind of like the way people once trained new attack dogs by pitting them against old, toothless ones. Anti-viral drugs are a fairly unusual thing, given the primitive nature of viruses; my intuition would be that the virus would have to basically reinvent the pathogenic wheel in order to get around a transcription blocker. But again, I'm not a biologist.

	14-02-2005 03:18									#35
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Well a lot of the antiviral drugs inhibit reverse transcriptase. They don't interfere with your own cells ability to transcribe but the viruses ability to transcribe RNA to DNA - the only place where such a transaction occurs. Drugs like AZT block reverse transcriptase and thus stop the virus being able to generate a DNA version of it's genome and integrating it into the host cell.

Now for this to be a different version as described it would somehow have to be triggered by a different mechanism suggesting that it's DNA would be integrated into a different part of the human genome, and that it's reverse transcriptase is somehow different in specificity.

Oh, the reason that reverse transcriptase inhibitors are dangerous is because that they can sometimes be integrated into the genome via replication, and thus mutation can occur...

	14-02-2005 03:25									#36
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Wait, they deliver reverse transcriptase inhibitors as a virus! If they only give you the inhibitor, then it couldn't be integrated into the genome.

	14-02-2005 03:32									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Wait, they deliver reverse transcriptase inhibitors as a virus! If they only give you the inhibitor, then it couldn't be integrated into the genome.

What? Reverse transcriptase inhibitors are intaken (often orally), and as it is an irreversible competitive inhibitor to thymidine it blocks up the active site of reverse transcriptase. As it is all statistical due to the relative concentrations, it won't stop the virus but significantly slow it down.

There are also interferons which can be administered. They are usually secreted when a cell is in distress which tells neighbouring cells to 'brace themselves' for a viral attack by slowing down rates of protein synthesis. The logic behind this is that if the rate of protein synthesis from mRNA then the virus is slowed because it will take much longer to produce viral protein components. And give the immune system a better chance against it.

	14-02-2005 03:44									#38
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Reverse transcriptase is an enzyme. Protein can't be integrated into the genome. The enzyme itself'll break down after a while.

	14-02-2005 03:53									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Reverse transcriptase is an enzyme. Protein can't be integrated into the genome. The enzyme itself'll break down after a while.

Are you actually listening? Reverse transcriptase is an enzyme. Enzymes are proteins which are coded for in DNA, and the DNA which a retrovirus integrates into the human genome has to be reverse transcribed from it's RNA which the viral capsid carries. If you really want to go all round on genetics with me kid, let's go...

	14-02-2005 07:21									#40
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Okay, can you two agree on a reason why the drugs cause all those nasty side effects? I know those exist, and from what I hear not just as a risk of *possible* mutation. Those side effects have been a huge weapon in South Africa's suicidal propaganda campaign against western medicine for AIDS, which is why so many Africans are trying to cure themselves by drinking water mixed with wheat germ or some crap like that.

	14-02-2005 08:00									#41
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk Damn Canadians!

BLAME CANADA!

	14-02-2005 08:19									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Are you actually listening? Reverse transcriptase is an enzyme. Enzymes are proteins which are coded for in DNA, and the DNA which a retrovirus integrates into the human genome has to be reverse transcribed from it's RNA which the viral capsid carries. If you really want to go all round on genetics with me kid, let's go...

I meant to say the inhibitor. And your original quote was

quote: Oh, the reason that reverse transcriptase inhibitors are dangerous is because that they can sometimes be integrated into the genome via replication, and thus mutation can occur...

The inhibitors would have to be delivered by a virus (which incidentally would have to use reverse transcriptase) for them to be integrated into the genome.

	14-02-2005 08:36									#43
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I wish the people cheering this news would catch it. Sickos.

	14-02-2005 08:38									#44
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You're going to die anyway, probably, and the increased speed won't probably decrease the chance of treatments working. The worst epidemics are the ones where the victim lasts as long as possible - the rest burn themselves out, or can be contained. This could lead to fewer deaths.

	14-02-2005 08:41									#45
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quote: You're going to die anyway, probably, and the increased speed won't probably decrease the chance of treatments working. The worst epidemics are the ones where the victim lasts as long as possible - the rest burn themselves out, or can be contained. This could lead to fewer deaths.

To clarify: I was speaking of those who think that this means that "faggots" will die quicker and get what they "deserve".

	14-02-2005 08:42									#46
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Oh, ok then

	14-02-2005 08:50									#47
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I imagine that this will put a damper on your planned college womanising then?

Not..

	14-02-2005 09:49									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Vesayen Fast acting diseases wiping out their populations quickly due to limited transportation MAY no longer apply... I won't claim expertise on the subject but we, especially the industrialized west can move around.... fast. If some man with this disease has sex in say, four different parts of the country....? The first person diagnosed with aids was a canadian airline attendant...

Think about it.
All other factors being equal (which im not claiming, we just dont know here) , meaning same rate of transmission etc, a shorter time for the disease to manifest itself can only DECREASE its epidemic potential, which on a global scale is a GOOD thing.

If the you had AIDS the day you became infected and died immediatly, you can bet there would be much fewer victims today.
This is extreme but my point still stands.

	14-02-2005 09:59									#49
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and we could do even more if we tested everyone, identified everyone with aids, and quaruntined them all immediately. That is even more humane then hoping they all catch the new killer aids and die faster.

	14-02-2005 10:07									#50
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quote: and we could do even more if we tested everyone, identified everyone with aids, and quaruntined them all immediately. That is even more humane then hoping they all catch the new killer aids and die faster.

Nice joke.

	14-02-2005 10:55									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Heresson This is not fair. 50 year ago people could **** around without that much fear.

Except for syphilius eating away at your brain and driving you insane.

	14-02-2005 11:48									#52
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Did anyone read Dr. Strangelove's post?

If the chance of infection is high enough, it will offset the shorter incubation period.

Suppose you have HIV, and have 10 partners whom you sleep with each 10 times over the course of 10 years, at 1 partner a year.

You would be likely to infect one person over the incubation period.

Now, if the chance of infection is doubled, and the incubation period halved, assuming constant chance of infection, nothing will change. You will still be likely to infect one person, even though your incubation period is only half of what it was previous.

	14-02-2005 11:56									#53
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quote: and we could do even more if we tested everyone, identified everyone with aids, and quaruntined them all immediately. That is even more humane then hoping they all catch the new killer aids and die faster.

The problem with this is twofold. First of all, unlike other diseases that spread in other ways, you can stand right across from someone with AIDS and you will not catch the disease. While there are situations where one can catch AIDS through no fault of your own, most of the infections come through conscious decisions made by people to chance the risk.

The real problem is with the public blood supply. More people are relying on private supplies because this way they can better control the donors, which means that there will be less blood available for others in an emergency.

It may be necessary, if more virulent strains become common, to do away with a blood supply altogether.

	14-02-2005 11:59									#54
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quote: I am a big promoter of abstinence but *shrug* you can't really advise people to be abstinent because it takes an amount of self controll many people are unwilling to use. People have to choose to do it on their own.

Very true. Hopefully more people will see the wisdom of this approach.

	14-02-2005 12:13									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker I meant to say the inhibitor. And your original quote was quote: Oh, the reason that reverse transcriptase inhibitors are dangerous is because that they can sometimes be integrated into the genome via replication, and thus mutation can occur... The inhibitors would have to be delivered by a virus (which incidentally would have to use reverse transcriptase) for them to be integrated into the genome.

No Kuci, you are speaking out of your arse. Reverse transcriptase inhibitors are not proteins, they are nucleotide analogues (AZT is a thymidine analogue). It blocks the active site of reverse transcriptase. However sometimes it can be integrated into the human genome by DNA polymerase. And hnce mutation can arise. Delivered by a virus? WTF are you talking about?

	14-02-2005 12:17									#56
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quote: Isn't there a story somewhere that people who are naturally resistant to the Bubonic (or Pneumonic) Plague are also resistant to HIV/AIDS.

From what I understand, the theory that the bubonic plague caused this mutation has been out of favor recently, rather it's thought to be something similar to small pox. IIRC, 10% of Northern Europeans have partial immunity, and 1% have full immunity. Swedes are particularly immune. So if you're gonna have unprotected sex, do it with a Swede.

	14-02-2005 12:17									#57
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are you always so angry?

	14-02-2005 12:22									#58
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 are you always so angry?

I get irritated when people think they know what they're talking about and don't.

	14-02-2005 12:36									#59
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Must get irritated a lot around here then.

	14-02-2005 17:56									#60
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Word.

So VJ thinks AIDS is killing of secularists? Interestingly, it's mostly killing people in Africa, where people on average is more religious than in the West ...