14-02-2005 12:40									#31
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Shi is correct (and logical)

Jon Miller

	14-02-2005 18:02									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi I'd hope people would be better after the death of someone and not mock them or their life, But I guess on this forum we can't have any respect for the dead if the deceased is a Catholic Nun. For the record, I am personally scpeitcal about Fatima, but I wouldn't go mocking it on the death of one of Fatima's caretakers. Recquiset in Pacem.

I'm not mocking the person, I'm mocking those people who claim that a document made in 1940 "prophesizing" (sp!) WW2 and the rise of Communism is, in fact, a prophesy.

	14-02-2005 18:05									#33
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quote: Originally posted by mindseye quote: What about the sign of "a night illuminated by an unknown light" before the outbreak of war? According to Fatima Prophecies, "on January 25, 1938, a remarkable display of aurora borealis was visible across Europe, the year before World War II began." This "display" (and not all that remarkable a one at that) appeared nearly two years before the war started. That qualifies as a sign that the war was "about to" begin? Standard practice for psychics and the like. Any unusual atmospheric phenomena anywhere over Europe in the years leading up to the war could equally be cited as "proof" of the accuracy of the prophesy. And of course ... monumentally unimpressive after the fact!

Stop mocking!

	14-02-2005 18:16									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi "Um... isn't the burden of proof on those who are making the assertion? What proof is there that they did see it?" I am not suggesting that you believe it because it isn't proved, rather that you not accuse them of being frauds without sufficent proof of their fraudulency.

The prophesy of WW2, the rise of Communism, the "strange lights", and the end of WW1 made after the fact is sufficient proof of fraudulency to 'most anybody. Except true-believers.

	14-02-2005 18:29									#35
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quote: I am not suggesting that you believe it because it isn't proved, rather that you not accuse them of being frauds without sufficent proof of their fraudulency.

Well making claims without any backing is usually considered enough for fradulency .

	14-02-2005 18:31									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison It's such utter bullsh*t isn't it? Also make the prophecies suitably vague and you could justify it as anything...

Can you prove I don't believe that Ganymede is made of green cheese and populated by a race of spacefaring cheese mites?

And that verily that this aforesaid oracle was vouchsafed to me by the apparation of the Holey Gorgonzola in the Cheddar Gorge?


Thought not.

	14-02-2005 18:46									#37
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Yes I can

Yes I can

	14-02-2005 18:53									#38
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Go ahead then .

	14-02-2005 18:59									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Go ahead then .

When you have ended all the temptations, will you then depart for a season?

	14-02-2005 19:16									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Go ahead then .

What I need is molly bloom tied tightly, a set of torture instruments.
I could do it with lie detector, but it'd be less fun.

	15-02-2005 00:37									#41
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"The prophesy of WW2, the rise of Communism, the "strange lights", and the end of WW1 made after the fact is sufficient proof of fraudulency to 'most anybody. Except true-believers."

No, there is absolutely no proof of fraudulency, that they did not in fact recieve those prophicies in 1917.

"
Well making claims without any backing is usually considered enough for fradulency ."

Lack of Proof of a statement does not indicate that the statemnt is false. I can say "I had a Chicken Sandwich for lunch today." I can't prove this in anyway, but that is not evidence I am lying to you.

I am not saying you should not hold a high standard of proof of when it comes to what you believe. I am suggesting you might want a slightly higher standard of evidence when dealing with malicious claims about people.

I doubt any of you would be pleased if somebody close to you were to die, and people started disparaging them as frauds with evidence to justify it.

	15-02-2005 01:33									#42
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom And that verily that this aforesaid oracle was vouchsafed to me by the apparation of the Holey Gorgonzola in the Cheddar Gorge?

Yeah, right. A Gorgonzola in Somerset. Like that's even remotely possible.

	15-02-2005 02:19									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi "The prophesy of WW2, the rise of Communism, the "strange lights", and the end of WW1 made after the fact is sufficient proof of fraudulency to 'most anybody. Except true-believers." No, there is absolutely no proof of fraudulency, that they did not in fact recieve those prophicies in 1917. " Well making claims without any backing is usually considered enough for fradulency ." Lack of Proof of a statement does not indicate that the statemnt is false. I can say "I had a Chicken Sandwich for lunch today." I can't prove this in anyway, but that is not evidence I am lying to you. I am not saying you should not hold a high standard of proof of when it comes to what you believe. I am suggesting you might want a slightly higher standard of evidence when dealing with malicious claims about people. I doubt any of you would be pleased if somebody close to you were to die, and people started disparaging them as frauds with evidence to justify it.

once more

the epitome of reason

Jon Miller

	15-02-2005 03:02									#44
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The Virgin of Guadeloupe PWNs the Virgin of Fatimah.

	15-02-2005 05:08									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi "The prophesy of WW2, the rise of Communism, the "strange lights", and the end of WW1 made after the fact is sufficient proof of fraudulency to 'most anybody. Except true-believers." No, there is absolutely no proof of fraudulency, that they did not in fact recieve those prophicies in 1917.

Only 23 years of silence.

quote: " Well making claims without any backing is usually considered enough for fradulency ." Lack of Proof of a statement does not indicate that the statemnt is false. I can say "I had a Chicken Sandwich for lunch today." I can't prove this in anyway, but that is not evidence I am lying to you.

I think there are a little difference between the two statements. Noone would think it would be especially weird if you had a chicken sandwich for lunch. Predictions about worldwars etc are in an other class, and people has the rigth to bne suspicious if they are stated after they happened.

quote: I am not saying you should not hold a high standard of proof of when it comes to what you believe. I am suggesting you might want a slightly higher standard of evidence when dealing with malicious claims about people. I doubt any of you would be pleased if somebody close to you were to die, and people started disparaging them as frauds with evidence to justify it.

I don't think anyone is attacking the person, just the statements, especially if the statements cannot be proven. How come that when somebody dies, then their statements suddently get a status that makes it improper to say that they are not true ? Their dead does not add any creadibility to the statement.

	15-02-2005 05:42									#46
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quote: Originally posted by BlackCat Only 23 years of silence. I think there are a little difference between the two statements. Noone would think it would be especially weird if you had a chicken sandwich for lunch. Predictions about worldwars etc are in an other class, and people has the rigth to bne suspicious if they are stated after they happened. I don't think anyone is attacking the person, just the statements, especially if the statements cannot be proven. How come that when somebody dies, then their statements suddently get a status that makes it improper to say that they are not true ? Their dead does not add any creadibility to the statement.

once more

the epitome of reason

	15-02-2005 09:47									#47
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he is not arguing that it is credible

he is arguing that calling her a fraud is being rude and wrong, since there is no evidence that she purposely mislead

I would expect you, JohnT, of understanding that difference

Jon Miller

	15-02-2005 09:50									#48
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If I told you I was Ghengis Khan reborn, and then I died, would it be rude to say I was a fraud once I was dead?

	15-02-2005 10:10									#49
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quote: I think there are a little difference between the two statements. Noone would think it would be especially weird if you had a chicken sandwich for lunch. Predictions about worldwars etc are in an other class, and people has the rigth to bne suspicious if they are stated after they happened.

So? There is absolutely no proof of either. Neither event is something that it would be impossible to happen. If you don't find it convincing, don't believe it, but don't mock them as frauds either.

Jon Miller has this one right

	15-02-2005 19:15									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp Yeah, right. A Gorgonzola in Somerset. Like that's even remotely possible.

That's the miraculous part covered.

	15-02-2005 21:01									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Lord Nuclear If I told you I was Ghengis Khan reborn, and then I died, would it be rude to say I was a fraud once I was dead?

yes, unless I saw evidence that suggested that you knew you weren't Khan reborn, and had been purposefully fooling people

now I might say that you were confused.. or say that I doubted the truthfulness of your being Khan reborn...

Jon Miller

	15-02-2005 21:14									#52
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"lights dancing in the sky ... "

and this is why they tell you not to eat all kinds of mushrooms ...