12-05-2005 01:47									#211
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But you received your extra pop after I called the council. The council is supposed to be instantaneous at that moment in time.

	12-05-2005 01:48									#212
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Okay, we have a proposal. Rather than let this interfere with the actual game play (diplomacy wise) I think we should resolve it pretty quickly.

Sebed, can you agree to accept the 3 to 1 vote to have you replay the turn, vote for Senethro, and have Lord_Icewind abstain from voting?

I know it's not really ideal, but it would give us the closest aproximation (the result anyway) to what would have happened if we all voted during Senethro's turn, as single player mechanics would dictate.

and how on earth is everybody pacted with teh Hive? The jerk won't even speak to me!

	12-05-2005 01:50									#213
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I got to be his Pact ***** by declaring war on the Pirates.

Now theres Machiavellan for you.

	12-05-2005 01:55									#214
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quote: Originally posted by Senethro But you received your extra pop after I called the council. The council is supposed to be instantaneous at that moment in time.

you are wrong...
i received extra-pop exactly at the same turn when you called council...
if i were before you in turn-order the situation would be clear and you wouldn't be among candidates...

besides... if Yang has so many "friends" why ONLY i wanted to vote for him?

	12-05-2005 02:01									#215
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Unfortunately not Sebed, unless we were playing simultaneous turns. Even in SP there is a turn order but Council is one of those events decided instantaneously.

	12-05-2005 02:04									#216
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it has no matter - anyway - the game mechanics didn't let you win and this is exaclty what i was counting for and you cannot make me to change my votes...
it was your tactical mistake Senthro - if you called council 1 turn earlier you would have won...

	12-05-2005 02:11									#217
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I didn't have the votes to call it a turn earlier so I fail to see how I've made an error.

	12-05-2005 02:17									#218
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so... your mistake was to play poor diplomacy with me and not making sure i vote for you... though you are better Machiavellan than i ever thought, you failed...

	12-05-2005 02:21									#219
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But had the council been done correctly then I wouldn't have needed your vote. Unfortunately the coding has been shown not to be functional enough to handle close situations.

	12-05-2005 02:22									#220
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quote: But had the council been done correctly then I wouldn't have needed your vote.

really?

so... why you wanted to bribe me?

quote: Unfortunately the coding has been shown not to be functional enough to handle close situations.

let it be so, i don't bother

	12-05-2005 02:26									#221
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So despite having the most votes and having the requirments I'm not going to be governor?

	12-05-2005 02:28									#222
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it's me who has the highest number of votes, Senethro
and i wasn't even among those 3 (!!!) candidates!
but i don't bother...
and we already have a governor - it's Senethro's (and also mine) pact-brother

	12-05-2005 02:35									#223
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You didn't have the most votes when I called council before you built PTS so, unsurprisingly, you were not among the candidate list.

	12-05-2005 02:37									#224
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**** happens
but i don't bother, do you?

	12-05-2005 02:44									#225
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Alright, we're arguing on tangents here.

At the time of the election the viable candidates were Senethro, Hive, Cyborgs. That's who we all got to vote on, except Icewind. He didn't get the choice to cast the ballot he wanted, and that changed the results.

I don't think arguing about what-if things happened sooner or later should change it.

Sebed, if you won't agree to what has been argued here, and the 3 factions' desire to employ Senethro's fix to your desire not to, then we can PM our CMN. We all need to agree, however, that his say will be final no matter what he does... even if his solution is something crazy like installing Sparta as governor.

I think it's smoother and classier if we can work out a decision by ourselves, but given the magnitude of that deicision then we either need to all go along (even if under protest) or have the old arbitrator come in.

It's awkward that the sides on the issue are along "party line," so to speak, but I think that the effort in PBEM usually goes toward minimizing the weird effects of turns taking place on different comptuers (no accepting human faction bribes from AI, no "send a stern rebuke" when you probe rape somebody and get caught so that they never know it happened, no "demand withdrawal" from the diplomacy menu).

	12-05-2005 02:44									#226
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Edit: post deleted.

Fosse is right.

	12-05-2005 02:48									#227
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my vote:
continue the game as it is.

quote: Originally posted by Darsnan Or you can continue on with the game as is, and know that next time you see a 3 way election, the end result may be that not everyone gets to vote for all 3 candidates (and if I had to make a choice, I'd go with this option). FYI. D

	12-05-2005 02:53									#228
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Okay. I PMed Darsnan, and asked him to read the thread and make a decision.

	12-05-2005 03:45									#229
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quote: Originally posted by Fosse Planetary Council Convenes: Candidates for Governorship: Prime Function Aki Zeta-5 Chairman Yang Brother Lal Vote Allocations: Pirates : 14 Yang : 24 : Yang Lal : 24 : Lal Aki : 30 : Aki Zak : 16 : Lal Santi : 9 : Abstain Dee : 21 Totals : Yang : 24 Aki : 30 Lal : 40 Turn 2135 sent to Sebed.

Can someone send me the turn where elections were initially called, so taht I can retrace the steps myself step by step and see what happens?


Thanx,


D

	12-05-2005 03:49									#230
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Here is the turn Senethro sent me after he called for elections.

Attachment: goc-uni-2135.zip
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	12-05-2005 03:55									#231
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And my own turn if you want to go a step further back.

Attachment: goc-pk's-2135.sav
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	12-05-2005 06:11									#232
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To All Factional Representatives of Chiron,

the Bureau of Uniform Legal Litigation (or "B.U.L.L." for short) has reviewed all of the filed legal briefs relating to the disputed election results from MY 2135, and offer the following rulings on the matter:

1. Legal Council representing Chairman Yang of the Sea Hive has filed a complaint that one years notice was not given before elections were called. While it is agreed that this is a breach in diplomacy (typically in PBEM's one turns notice is given when calling elections, possibly to prevent situations such as this from occuring), it is ruled by BULL that no election rules have actually been violated.

2. Legal Council representing Chairman Yang has filed the following vid-clip from Brother Senethro of the Peace Keepers as follows: "I didn't have the votes to call it a turn earlier so I fail to see how I've made an error.". Hive Council has argued that the Peace Keepers were knowingly tracking and tallying projected election results, thus completely negating the basic premise of the democratic election process. It is ruled by BULL that the Sea Hive complaint is valid in that while it is not illegal to track projected election results, it is not necessarily in the best interests of democracy. It will also be put into the record that if the Peace Keepers had indeed called elections the year before (i.e. MY2134), that they would not have won the election. It is also noted for record that because of the Gaians completion of the Planetary Transit System, that if elections were called a year later (i.e. MY1236) that once again the Peace Keepers would not have won the election (and in fact they would not have even been on the ballot!).

3. Legal Council representing the Peace Keepers have filed a motion asking for a revote. It is ruled by BULL that while there are issues with how the results were tallied, that this election system is, and always will be the system for tallying Planetary Election results. For better or for worse, this is the election procss we are stuck with. It will also be entered into the record that it is suspected, but not proven, that the Hive knew of this election process issue and did not make it public record. It is also noted for record that the BULL questions the Hive's sudden animated defense of the democratic process, and the true motivations which led to the Hive's sudden about-face in regards to this arena.....

It is therefore ruled by BULL that the election results, though flawed, should stand. This is only the first election on Planet: there will be many more......


Primary Council Darsnan
Chief BULL Distributor

	12-05-2005 06:57									#233
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* Senethro grudgingly accepts.

Yes, there may be another election but will I be around to see it?

	12-05-2005 07:31									#234
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Such is the decision of BULL. Senethro, do you have the current turn then, or does Icewind still have it?

If it gets to me tonight I can still play it. I'll be impressed if we can have a major election struggle and still get the turn sent all the way around in a single day.

-Fosse

	12-05-2005 13:13									#235
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The two facts I know are

1.Votes are counted at exact moment elections are called.
2.Candidates are recalculated upon each opening of human's turn.

Thus:

quote: Pirates : 14 : Aki (I assumed this from thread) Yang : 24 : Yang Lal : 24 : Lal Aki : 30 : Aki Zak : 16 : Lal Santi : 9 : Abstain Dee : 21 : Yang (I assumed this from thread)

Results in a:
Yang: 45
Aki: 44
Lal: 40

So statements like "Aki should have won" have no ground.

Also statements like "I completed PTS, so had more votes" are crap. You can test yourself in SP that votes don't change during elections (or at least shouldn't unless there's another bug somewhere).
This has been discussed over General/Strategy forum multiple times.

And I am really amazed how Lal did get disqualified if his/Yang's pop didn't change. If it did, everything's ok.

Also I was not able to deduce whom did Santiago vote for (if she voted at all).

	12-05-2005 13:38									#236
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I believe that Santiago abstained because shes a hateful b!tch and that the Hive gained 2 population before the Pirate's (Icewind's) turn preventing him from voting for me.

	12-05-2005 15:26									#237
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Turn sent.

	12-05-2005 18:51									#238
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Yes, statements like "Aki should have won" were based on the thought that the vote totals didn't change during the course of the election, just the candidates. I see now how things worked.

What I'm happy about is that the CMN system really shined. It's the first time, other than password wrangling, that I've been in a first hand situation that needed the CMN, and I'm a big fan of how it worked out (even if the perspective I was debating for didn't "win.")

Kudos to Darsnan. I'll remember the Election Crisis of 2135 fondly.

And turn sent (last night) to Sebed.

	12-05-2005 19:11									#239
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quote: Yes, statements like "Aki should have won" were based on the thought that the vote totals didn't change during the course of the election, just the candidates.

But that thought was correct actually.
It's exactly the same I said - candidates are the only thing that matters, votes are static from the moment Council is called.

	12-05-2005 21:09									#240
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Sebed of Gaia respects every single word of BULL and is under huge impression of the very wise decision...
[turn sent to Lord Icewind]