14-02-2005 21:08									#31
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Yeah, cuz looking at an traditional powerplant is such fun.

Who gives a toss about two people who live on the coast? They can't handle a couple of windmills build 20 miles off-shore..dammit they need binoculars to even spot them.

	14-02-2005 21:09									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Kamrat X As General Ludd said earlier. If the energy isnīt wasted the will be no shortage. Donīt waste energy, dagnammit And nuclear power is not pure or clean! Itīs just corporate bullshit propaganda...

Sure, conservation is good but you can conserve all you want there will still be energy demands. Do you really think the UK is more energy wasteful then the rest of Europe? I'd guess that compared to each pound of GDP their energy usage is pretty efficient.

	14-02-2005 21:12									#33
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quote: Originally posted by alva Yeah, cuz looking at an traditional powerplant is such fun. Who gives a toss about two people who live on the coast? They can't handle a couple of windmills build 20 miles off-shore..dammit they need binoculars to even spot them.

20 miles off sore is likely to deep and would suffer from transmition loses. The ones pictured in the article were less then 100 meters off the coast.

Tidal generators would be better but traditionally those things get gummed up with san and sea weed so they require huge amounts of maintaince. They never generate more energy then they use.

	14-02-2005 21:13									#34
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There's no point in the UK that's more than 200 miles from the coast. Might even be less than that. Coasts we have in abundance. We have too many coasts. We've got vast tracts of coast up in Northern Scotland where barely anyone lives. There's everything to the east of East Anglia where I'm sure the dying Suffolk towns would love to cash in on any jobs building wind farms would bring.

Besides, living by the coast in the UK doesn't mean sun and fun. In the summer, seaside towns are brilliant places. I used to live in one. In the winter, they are cold, windy and wet. Hell, five months out of the year you avoid the coast and beach.

	14-02-2005 21:17									#35
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd Why not just wait for jesus's second coming so that he can turn it into wine?

Because one's far more likely to happen than the other.

	14-02-2005 21:51									#36
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Tossing nuclear waste into subduction zones:

	14-02-2005 21:56									#37
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whatever happen to the idea of launching our garbage into space?

	14-02-2005 22:54									#38
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Because one's far more likely to happen than the other.

Not by any reasonable magnitude.

I think I'd rather have faith in Jesus, actually. For some reason it seems a bit less silly than having faith in a science fiction novel.

	14-02-2005 22:59									#39
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A study came out of the US a couple weeks ago showing that the cheapest way to reduce CO2 levels... is plant more trees.

Hardly rocket science, is it?

	14-02-2005 23:09									#40
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The ooze is a subduction zone is highly stable except to green alarmists. That's why we take cores out of it going thousands of years - it forms very even nicely undisturbed layers. The depths we are talking about are typically at four-seven miles, and the movement is inches per year. It will take several thousand years to subduct into the trench, then circulate around the mantle, and then maybe get into a volcano. By the time those rocks start eroding, you are looking at realistic depletion by time.

Because it is both cold and anaerobic, I did not say a biological dead zone. A desert environment has specific implications of low biological activity, normally due to lack of water. Since the only thing living in that kind of environment is going to be anaerobic (no free oxygen) microbes, that is not going to produce the turnover of sediments that the greens prattle on about.

	14-02-2005 23:21									#41
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd I think I'd rather have faith in Jesus, actually. For some reason it seems a bit less silly than having faith in a science fiction novel.

Science fiction has been a lot better with its predictions than Christians have. And the idea of a space elevator doesn't come from a novel.When we figure out how to make carbon nanotubes, we can build an SE.

	14-02-2005 23:26									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Sure, conservation is good but you can conserve all you want there will still be energy demands. Do you really think the UK is more energy wasteful then the rest of Europe? I'd guess that compared to each pound of GDP their energy usage is pretty efficient.

This isnīt a UK question. Iīm talking energy conservation on a global scale.

	14-02-2005 23:32									#43
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Science fiction has been a lot better with its predictions than Christians have. And the idea of a space elevator doesn't come from a novel.When we figure out how to make carbon nanotubes, we can build an SE.

But on the other hand; when we have the level of science required to build a space elevator, we surely also have a more efficient and clean energy source than nuclear fission. Go future!

	15-02-2005 00:15									#44
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Wind farms

	15-02-2005 00:15									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Cruddy A study came out of the US a couple weeks ago showing that the cheapest way to reduce CO2 levels... is plant more trees. Hardly rocket science, is it?

This is correct, in theory, but the problem is that you would have to end deforestation in the tropics, otherwise you are just fighting a loosing battle.

	15-02-2005 00:17									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman Wind farms

We have several wind-power generators around Fargo (which is the REAL windy city, not Chicago).

	15-02-2005 14:25									#47
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There's also tidal energy, which is quite feasible at many coastal areas.

	15-02-2005 15:55									#48
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd Why not just wait for jesus's second coming so that he can turn it into wine?

Does Green Jesus turn heavy water into whine?

	15-02-2005 15:59									#49
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Nuclear Power is clearly the way of the future.


Kind of like jet engines.

	15-02-2005 16:07									#50
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Jet engines are the way of the future.

	15-02-2005 16:09									#51
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Teh fixations!



OK, enough in-jokes for now.

	15-02-2005 17:27									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Cruddy A study came out of the US a couple weeks ago showing that the cheapest way to reduce CO2 levels... is plant more trees. Hardly rocket science, is it?

It isnīt rocket science but it isnīt childs play either. As described in this BBC article quoting a Nature report.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1643156.stm

	15-02-2005 21:43									#53
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Algae and sea weed are better. There is a huge volume of water where they can grow.

You don't have to worry about forest fires, either.

	15-02-2005 23:02									#54
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But they die and decay, releasing their CO₂ back into the system.

	15-02-2005 23:19									#55
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara But they die and decay, releasing their CO2 back into the system.

The only way to remove the CO2 for good is to turn it into carbonate rocks, that's how nature does it.

	15-02-2005 23:38									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Then you aren't thinking very hard. The coastal areas are usually the most densely populated, ergo, the most likely to have people who will be upset about having their views obstructed. Sure, some remote areas exist and wind generators can be built there but that will never produce more then a tiny franction of the needed energy. If you stopped and thought about it then you'd already know this.

In the US, maybe. In the UK, no. Much of our coast is Scotland, the parts that are very sparsely populated. It's also the windiest part, so probably the best place to put them. Plus there's Scottish mountains inland that give us loads of options with where to put them.

Plenty of places t provide a majority of our energy.

	15-02-2005 23:59									#57
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Are there any ways that have been devised to harness the power in waves?

	16-02-2005 06:25									#58
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Nuclear waste is only 'waste' because we currently have no use for it. However radioactive substances and unnatural isotopes certainly might have some use in the future. Rather than trying to drop the stuff into subduction zones or otherwise make it totally inaccessable I'd rather it was just stored in dry caves in some exceptionally stable portion of the earths crust and left there until we find uses for it.

	16-02-2005 06:54									#59
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara But they die and decay, releasing their CO2 back into the system.

Some trees can live over 1,000 years, if that doesn't buy enough time to solve the problem, we're screwed anyway.

	16-02-2005 07:32									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Smiley Some trees can live over 1,000 years, if that doesn't buy enough time to solve the problem, we're screwed anyway.

We could also chop down the trees and make wooden stuff out of them. That keeps the CO2 locked up a long time as well.

Why do you think chopping down a whole forest gives you 10 shields without so much as a single triangle of pullution