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St Leo is offline St Leo
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  Old Post 15-02-2005 22:35 Visit St Leo<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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quote:
Liberals within range of majority

SUSAN DELACOURT
OTTAWA BUREAU CHIEF

OTTAWA—The federal Liberals are within striking distance of majority government, according to a new Toronto Star poll.

But it's a shaky strength built on disenchantment with the Conservatives and a public that's "listless" and scandal-fatigued.

The poll, conducted by EKOS Research Associates, shows the Liberals at 40.2 per cent support nationally, up from the 36.7 per cent they obtained in last June's election.

The increase seems to be coming at the expense of the Conservatives, whose national support slipped back to 26.5 per cent — found mostly in its old, traditional constituencies and farther away from the centrist mainstream. The Conservatives received 29.6 per cent of the vote in the 2004 federal election.

EKOS president Frank Graves describes the electorate generally as "listless" and "fractured" — words that have also been used to characterize the type of minority government Prime Minister Paul Martin has been leading since last June.

With the federal budget coming Feb. 23, the public's appetite for social-program spending also continues to grow, the poll found. When EKOS asked whether the budget surplus should go to debt reduction, tax cuts or social-program investment, an overwhelming majority — 61 per cent — favoured social spending, compared with just 18 per cent worried about the debt and 19 per cent favouring tax cuts. This social-program bent of the electorate could also explain why the New Democrats are at 18.7 per cent, up three points since the last election, and at a heady 32 per cent support in British Columbia, Graves said. "Relatively, they have improved the most since the election," Graves said.

New Democrats, however, could also be benefiting from their strategic decision to steer clear of most attacks on the Liberals along ethical lines. NDP Leader Jack Layton rarely wades into the daily ethics fray between Liberals and Tories during question period in the Commons.

In Ontario, the Liberals lead with 46 per cent support, followed by 32 per cent for the Conservatives and 18 per cent for the NDP.

But in Quebec, the Liberals still trail the Bloc Québécois by 13 percentage points, with the separatist party at 45 per cent support. That makes it very difficult for Martin to win a majority government and suggests there will be no early election.

Graves said the public is wearying of the constant attention on alleged Liberal scandal, which has been dogging Martin's party and government, especially in Quebec.

It's not that voters don't care — the poll shows about 78 per cent of respondents were aware to some degree of the issues in front of the one-year-old commission of inquiry led by Justice John Gomery.

This is around the same as the 76-per-cent level of interest shown a year ago after the federal auditor general's bombshell report about the Liberal sponsorship program.

Almost two-thirds of the respondents say they have adequate or "somewhat adequate" information by now to form a judgment. Graves reads this as scandal fatigue.

"It's a lot of storm and fury but it's not having much impact on things for Martin," Graves said.

"The biggest hazard would be for all those people wanting to flog the ethics issue all the way into an election campaign. ... People seem to have decided they've heard enough."

Martin capped the political portion of the inquiry's hearings last Thursday with his own appearance before the Gomery commission, which followed testimony from former prime minister Jean Chrétien.

The inquiry now moves to Montreal on Feb. 28 to investigate advertising-firm connections to the Liberal sponsorship program.

The poll was conducted through phone interviews with 1,046 Canadians 18 years of age and older, from Feb. 7 to 9. The results are considered accurate to within 3 percentage points, 19 times out of 20. Regional breakdowns have a higher margin of error.

Graves said he finds it odd the Conservatives' strength is so low in this latest poll. Given the lack of any enthusiasm for the Liberal government, one would assume, he said, that Tories would have more support.

But Graves believes it's a result of the same-sex marriage issue, on which Conservative Leader Stephen Harper has been playing mainly to the social conservatives.

"They've been retrenching back to their core constituencies," Graves said.

"But it means they're missing a chance to make gains at the political centre. ... It's very puzzling."

Still, the Conservatives are registering a reasonably healthy 32 per cent support in Ontario, far better than in Quebec, where Harper has been concentrating a lot of his attention, apparently to little effect so far. EKOS found only 8 per cent Conservative support in Quebec.

Graves said "an ethics focus in any looming election will probably kill that party's (the Tories) prospects in Quebec, where voters have no interest in further talk of sponsorship."

Ontario, the Atlantic provinces and British Columbia are the regions of strongest support for the governing Liberals, and Alberta and Quebec are the areas where they are most overwhelmed by their opposition foes.


I wish the Bloc would go away. All they seem to do is leech votes from the NDP in Quebec.

Attachment: votingintentions.png
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Oncle Boris is offline Oncle Boris
Prince
Once in a brown moon
Aug 2001
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  Old Post 15-02-2005 22:41
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St. Leo, I doubt that the Bloc is leeching away votes from the NDP. The Bloc doesn't get elected on its socio-economic platform, but rather from its constitutional stance (that would be their hard base) and seasonal issues like scandals (that's their swing vote).

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Are your Liberals American-liberals or Euro-liberals?

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
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Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
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  Old Post 15-02-2005 23:07
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Are your Liberals American-liberals or Euro-liberals?


American immigrants fleeing teh Bush.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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May 2001
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Are your Liberals American-liberals or Euro-liberals?


They're left of the conservatives and right of the NDP.

Democrats on steroids.

The natural governing party of Canada (80% of time in office for the last 75 years or so)

Fairly centrist in Canadian terms (equally many enemies to the right and to the left)

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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They embarked on a fairly strong journey toward social/cultural progressiveness about 10 years ao, but then again so did most Canadians. In economic terms they pretty much run on "don't rock the boat" financial stability and balanced budgets/surpluses.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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I'm not surprised that people are starting to get scandal-fatigue.

Harper's been riding this one pretty hard. Eventually people stop caring.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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Looks like the Grits are winning the game of political hot potato called "minority government". The Tories lack the political skill needed to keep them on the defensive. If Chrétien was still in they'd be in even more trouble. That dude knew every trick in the book.

St Leo is offline St Leo
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quote:
Originally posted by Oncle Boris
St. Leo, I doubt that the Bloc is leeching away votes from the NDP. The Bloc doesn't get elected on its socio-economic platform, but rather from its constitutional stance (that would be their hard base) and seasonal issues like scandals (that's their swing vote).


True, but let's pause for a moment and contemplate the hypothetical demise of the Bloc. If Quebecers were to start voting for socio-economic platforms rather than constitutional sovereignity, which party would gain the most?

On one hand, Quebec has taken a very right-wing approach to healthcare by allowing for private clinics. On the other, it is a bastion of progressive values. Hmm.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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quote:
If Quebecers were to start voting for socio-economic platforms rather than constitutional sovereignity, which party would gain the most?


Duh?

The Liberals.

Wezil is offline Wezil
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Nov 1999
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  Old Post 15-02-2005 23:36
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So the unofficial party rag says they are within striking distance.... *sigh*

Call the election and find out Mr. Martin.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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Quebec politics is ****ed up, by the way, St Leo

Asking that we hypothesise on what would happen if the constitutional issue went away is like asking how I'd want my eggs cooked if we lived in a non-Riemannian manifold.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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quote:
Originally posted by Wezil
So the unofficial party rag says they are within striking distance.... *sigh*

Call the election and find out Mr. Martin.


The Star is the Liberal party rag?

Isn't its editorial stance somewhere between the Liberals and the New Democrats?

Kontiki is offline Kontiki
Settler
Canada
Aug 2001
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  Old Post 15-02-2005 23:39
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I'd say the Star is a little to the left of the Liberals. Don't most people equate the Globe with the Libs?

Wezil is offline Wezil
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Nov 1999
time: 01:54
  Old Post 15-02-2005 23:40
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse


The Star is the Liberal party rag?

Isn't its editorial stance somewhere between the Liberals and the New Democrats?


Central Canadian liberal - yes. Along with most of our major media.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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Look at those age demographics.

THe Conservatives better do something about that. Otherwise half their supporters are going to die of emphysema before the next election.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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Macedonia
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quote:
Originally posted by Kontiki
I'd say the Star is a little to the left of the Liberals. Don't most people equate the Globe with the Libs?


The Globe is slightly to the right of the Liberals IMO.

It used to be almost smack dab between the old PC and Liberal parties, but either the Liberals have moved to the right or the Globe's moved to the left.

Flubber is offline Flubber
Emperor
With a view of the Rockies
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  Old Post 15-02-2005 23:43
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I think that calling an unnecessary election would cost the Liberals 5 points right there-- So if the Libs want an election, they have to find a way to blame it on the Conservatives/Bloc or NDP.

I'm imagining scenarios where they put enough stuff in the budget to raise the hackles of each of the other parties but the type of stuff that doesn't lose them support from voters-- a tough trick perhaps if the other parties can be strategic in their thinking

Wezil is offline Wezil
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  Old Post 15-02-2005 23:44
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse

It used to be almost smack dab between the old PC and Liberal parties...


That would be too fine a line to walk.

Flubber is offline Flubber
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quote:
Originally posted by Wezil


That would be too fine a line to walk.


I agree. The overlap between the PCs and Libs was so large that there was literall no space between them

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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quote:
Originally posted by Flubber
I think that calling an unnecessary election would cost the Liberals 5 points right there-


So do I.

Managing the election call is critical in minority situations.

If Canadians believe the Tories forced the election then they'll get raped. If they believe the Liberals did it...well, it'll be another minority government.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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quote:
Originally posted by Wezil


That would be too fine a line to walk.


They really did manage it pretty well though.

Richelieu is offline Richelieu
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  Old Post 15-02-2005 23:54
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Real Canadian news.

Wezil is offline Wezil
King
Ontario, Canada
Nov 1999
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  Old Post 16-02-2005 00:16
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ABC = Anchored By Canadians

St Leo is offline St Leo
King of Scenario League
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quote:
Originally posted by Wezil
ABC = Anchored By Canadians


Oh? So...

CBS = Canadian Brew of Smut
FOX = Ferocious Ontario eXtractions
NBC = Northern Barbarian Conquerors
UPN = UP North, eh?

Wezil is offline Wezil
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Ontario, Canada
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  Old Post 16-02-2005 00:33
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Wasn't passing judgement, just stating a fact.

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