15-02-2005 22:42									#1
	HoI1 better than HoI2? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

After playing HoI2 for a while, and then switching back to HoI1, I've come to the conclusion that 1 is better than 2.

One of my biggest pet peeves in 2 is that you can't specify provinces for your tactical bombers to bomb. Instead, they bomb general regions. I'm playing as Germany, and I'm invading France, only my tactical bombers won't attack the exact province I want them to. I've been all over the forums at Paradox and apparantly, this is just the way the game is.

2 isn't without it's strong points, however. I think the technologies are better in 2. I also like how you can research different trees. The layout for the techs is also much better in 2.

Right now I'm playing the CORE ver 9 mod for HoI1. And this is the most fun I've had in these games.

All I can say is I'm glad I didn't pay for HoI2, because it just isn't better than the first one.

Agree? Disagree?

Discuss.

	16-02-2005 03:56									#2
	Put an end to popups!

I just do not like adjusting my sliders every time something happens.

I like the new attack systems but as you mentioned, your airforce is wacko.

Naval combat is better, and the tech system is better, I like the new combat system (ground) as well.

	16-02-2005 05:36									#3
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I agree. HoI 1.06 + Core is much more enjoyable than HoI2 1.1

Personally I loathe the TC system. Whats the point in having 4000 in manpower as the soviets if you can't actually use more than a couple hundred divisions? Not even moving them, just holding stationary positions. Baah.

	16-02-2005 18:56									#4
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I like the way the air combat is handled, although being able to make specific one-time bombardments to help in a breakthrough wouldn't hurt, either.

I like the TC system, too.


Asleepathewheel, you can keep building divisions when you've used up your TC limit, but as was historically the case of the soviets, you will end up with a large undersupplied army, and the majority of the manpower will go to replacing all the troops you throw away as cannon fodder.

If you want a more proffesional and organized soviet army, spend your resources mostly on improving the infrastructure and industry and keep your army within the capability of your transport capacity. That's the typical trade off - few and strong, or many and weak. Why would you want a "many and strong" army as the USSR, anyways? It's already the easiest country in the game to play - You practically have to try to lose.

	17-02-2005 01:02									#5
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You guys must be joking! After playing HoI2, there is no way back! HoI1 was somewhat good, but nothing special compared to Paraodox's other games. HoI2 OTOH, is fantastic compared to it!

	17-02-2005 03:32									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by General Ludd Asleepathewheel, you can keep building divisions when you've used up your TC limit, but as was historically the case of the soviets, you will end up with a large undersupplied army, and the majority of the manpower will go to replacing all the troops you throw away as cannon fodder. If you want a more proffesional and organized soviet army, spend your resources mostly on improving the infrastructure and industry and keep your army within the capability of your transport capacity. That's the typical trade off - few and strong, or many and weak. Why would you want a "many and strong" army as the USSR, anyways? It's already the easiest country in the game to play - You practically have to try to lose.

I'm anal and like to have 12 unit armies on every front province

Maybe next time I'll cut down to 3 and build more tanka and air units or something

	17-02-2005 17:36									#7
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel I'm anal and like to have 12 unit armies on every front province Maybe next time I'll cut down to 3 and build more tanka and air units or something

ROFL 12??!

3 is quite sufficient.

In my current game (HoI1+1.06 and CORE), it's late March 1936 and playing as the Soviet Union, I have already conquered Poland, the Baltic States, Romania, Germany, most of Czeckoslovakia, and I'm working on Austria + Hungary with a few province to go.

Although I did some "creative editing" in some of the event files (command type = add_division) giving myself lots of things, like a 12 unit tank groups ("1st Corps") which absolutely dominated Germany's Panzers... well what was left of them after my tactical bombers whooped their asses.

The point being, I'm having much more fun on HoI1.

If they would only fix that air unit combat thing... I'd be all set with HoI2. But air power is such a huge part of the game, it's virtually unplayable the new way.

	20-02-2005 11:44									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I have only began playing HoI2, and never played 1, so I have no idea.

I have to say playing the USSR is easy- a cmplete nob like me is winning the game handily with them...and If I am doing it, you know it must be easy.

What bugs me is that its all about the IC's- with enough IC all your units are fully upgraded, all your armies get reinforced quickly, you expand the infrastructure and industriual base without problem, end all unhappiness, and make lots of units.

I started in 1936 as the Soviets, and played around, building up little by little, mainly increasing my infrastructure and industry.

Played the game historically (signed the pact with the Germans, got the baltics, half of poland, went to war with Finland and got a couple of provinces), then by May 1941 the Axis attacked me- by Jan 1942 I had liberated Poland and Czechoslovakia, made Romania and HUngary puppets, annexed Austria (which had remained independent, but a German ally), and secured berlin and eastern Germany, with my troops driving west, and south into Italy.

	20-02-2005 15:27									#9
	Increase the size of your Attachments

If you start in 1936, nothing can stop you.

	20-02-2005 21:24									#10
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I assume the US is equally absurd to play?

	20-02-2005 21:56									#11
	Inflate your Upload Space

just more annoying with the naval aspect.

And it takes a while for the US industry to be worth anything, unlike the soviets.

	20-02-2005 23:38									#12
	Tired of ads?

The US only has 25 % of it's real IC available until they go to war, for balance reasons. I haven't tried them, but I'm sure they can be fun.

	22-02-2005 19:58									#13
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quote: Originally posted by GePap I assume the US is equally absurd to play?

The US is slightly harder since it can't really move its sliders to declare war before 1940 or 41 even in a 1936 senerio. Plus the US needs to build transports which must be protected by a navy in addition to building an army. The Soviets just need an Army and they start with the largest on the map so they can defeat Germany in 1936 and then go on to stomping the allies.

	25-02-2005 01:14									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I have found the US lend lease events a bit absurd- byt the middle of 1944 in my game, at which point I had defeated Germany and had decide to unite China under communism, I had 73 industry in some provinces in the Urals- I mean, it was out of sight.

I have been having an issue currently- I decided to play my second game, but I set the aggressiveness up, so things happened more akin to history (in my first game Japan declare war on no one- in my second, Japan invaded China on queue), but its june 1941 at this point, and Germany is doing bubkus vs me.

	25-02-2005 05:24									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

There is a lot of screwed up events in HOI@ because all they did is take the HOI1 events and transfer them over. The problem is most proviences have been renmbered so many events just don't work. The liberation of France event is supposed to trigger when Paris is taken so that Vichy ends and the old France comes back but I've never seen it work.

The worst though is the end of game event. Today I played as France in a normal/normal game and I defeated Germany by the fall of 1942. All of Germany was occupied by the allies and I released Poland, Czechislovakia, and Austria as puppets. Eventually in 1943 the USSR declared war on Germany but there was no German territory or units in the game. No sooner then Stalin declares war then I get the V-E Day event and the Soviets automatically get puppet status over all of eastern Europe. Never mind that the Balkans never got invaded or that the Soviets never took one bit of land or that I had more then 100 units on the Soviet border. That's just lame.

	25-02-2005 08:06									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

The last 3 games have been much more enjoyable all on normal/furious.

UK: managed to prevent Belgium from being overrun completely. Germany took one province from France the entire game. A series of attacks and retreats by me, first capturing much of N. Germany, but not Berlin, while the polish dismantling occured, retreated via transport all units before destruction, to france. The bad thing was the Netherlands ended up owning all of germany/itay/euroaxis countries. Sigh.

NatChi: Fun fun. Smashed Comchis, the the southern chinese, drove out Japanese until they offered peace (left with the nub of Korea) Then united China (minus Mongolia). Declared war on Allies, took all mainland asian provinces. Then Germs declared war on Soviets, which was a few months earlier than I wanted, so I loost a few provinces near vladivostok, but I had too much infantry power and eventually split the USSR with Germany. Stopped then, just got tedious, and my navy was shameful, ie, no attack on US possible, really.

Japanese: currently playing, but fun. I like the games which start in 36 with a bang.

	25-02-2005 09:15									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I am getting very annoyed with the bugs:

In this game with the USSR, noticed that the Germans seemed utterly unwilling to move, so I decided to take Manchuko, since the US had managed to land an invasion force on Japan and was taking Hokaido pretty quickly, and had even landed troops in mainland Asia, so I decided the getting with Japan was good- well, about two days into !942, as I was routing Manchuko, the Japan surrender ebvent occurs, my game crashes. No way to avoid it- very obnoxious.

	25-02-2005 10:16									#18
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

this game has some warts, for sure.

It often crashes on me when I quit out of a game to the vic points screen

By far the worst for me is that the AI is deathly afraid of urban warfare. Nothing ruins a long build up from 36 like the germans forming a circle around warsaw for a few months Its happened to me maybe 25% of the time.

I find that I have to "help" the ai make decisions early in the game, or else it will get bogged down. Hmm. Maybe the germans could go through belgium to get to France Otherwise they can build up 20+units at each province on the maginot line.


sigh

	25-02-2005 22:17									#19
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One thing I liked better in HOI1 over HOI2 was the technology trading. In HOI1 you could trade techs with any nation where as in HOI2 you can only trade techs with your allies. This is a problem because Japan always has an alliance with Manchuko thus they never join the axis same goes with Nationalist China never joining the allies due to the 'China unites against Japan" event.

In HOI1 I used to love to play nonaligned countries like Brazil because you could play both sides into giving you stuff and still conquor most of South America without commiting to either side. Without the tech trading Brazil will stay so far behind technologically that it will never be able to do much of anything.

Last edited by Oerdin on 25-02-2005 at 22:25

	26-02-2005 20:14									#20
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

playing as japan, my transports can only reach Hawaii? wtf? My plan was to invade either Canada or Mexico then knock out the US in one wave. But if I have to declare to take Hawaii, then move to the West coast, my navy is going to be decimated first...

	26-02-2005 20:52									#21
	Got spare money?

Well, that is imminently realisitc. Troop transports can;t simply just cross the whole Pacific Ocean.

You could, of course, try to take the Kuriles and perhaps some of Alaska and use that as a jumping point dow the coast.

	26-02-2005 23:42									#22
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I'm not asking them to go from Tokyo to LA, I'm asking them to go from whatever that eastern outpost of japan is, to LA or Mexico.

to realism that dimishes the fun. Why play as Japan if you can't effectively preempt the US without putting everything into your navy? **** that.

also, a huge gripe for me is my puppets failure to hand over their tech blueprints. I've puppetted NatChi, and they now have 6 techs I don't have, and they won't give them to me, nor will they trade them to me for other techs.

Do I need to roll through their countryside again?

I disllike having to load as other nations, to fix issues like this.

	27-02-2005 00:24									#23
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel I'm not asking them to go from Tokyo to LA, I'm asking them to go from whatever that eastern outpost of japan is, to LA or Mexico. to realism that dimishes the fun. Why play as Japan if you can't effectively preempt the US without putting everything into your navy? **** that.

Well, because you want to play a state for whom victory over the US means Naval control, not better tanks??

Sorry, but them's the breaks of playing Japan.

	27-02-2005 00:30									#24
	Do empires end after the war? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Is there some sort of nationalist pressure?

I decide to play a game as France, so by sept. 1939 I had nice, modern army with plenty of armor (basic medium tanks with Heavy armor brigades), and by the End of Jan. 1940 I had annexed Germany, Slovakia, and Hungary (the Axis at that point)

I had a belliegenrence rating of 104, so I decided to see how far it would fall by liberating most of my Sub-Saharan empire and Syria. It did not go particulalry far, so I had to liberate Poland and Czechoslovakia (I also liberated them from puppethood), and then Austria, Hungary, and FGR, all of which I kept as puppets and assumed military control.

So, at this point my belligerance is 0.

The thing is, after I had done thi, the UK begins to liberate a bunch of imperial holdings in Africa and the ME.

Is this preprogrammed, or did my actions for some reason convince the UK to let their people go?

	27-02-2005 09:33									#25
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I've never noticed that nor heard anyone else mention it. Then again the only country I ever release colonies for is Italy. Libya and Somalia produce absolutely nothing at all and North Africa/East Africa produces so little that it is not worth fighting over. If I still want to us the bases then my puppet will let me and I don't have to worry about the British taking them from me plus as an added benifit I can take over Yugoslavia & Greece without everyone declaring war on me due to high belligerance.

	28-02-2005 11:55									#26
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Nikolai You guys must be joking! After playing HoI2, there is no way back!

Amen

	28-02-2005 12:03									#27
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin One thing I liked better in HOI1 over HOI2 was the technology trading. In HOI1 you could trade techs with any nation where as in HOI2 you can only trade techs with your allies.

And this is the good thing.

quote: This is a problem because Japan always has an alliance with Manchuko thus they never join the axis same goes with Nationalist China never joining the allies due to the 'China unites against Japan" event.

Ban Manchuko or any of your other allies from your alliance and then you are free to join Axis.

quote: In HOI1 I used to love to play nonaligned countries like Brazil because you could play both sides into giving you stuff and still conquor most of South America without commiting to either side.

You could trade techs in HOI1? News to me.

quote: Without the tech trading Brazil will stay so far behind technologically that it will never be able to do much of anything.

I've played as Brazil and Argentina in HOI1, after conquering of USA and all of South America I nad no problems with IC and technologies.

	28-02-2005 12:09									#28
	Re: Do empires end after the war? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by GePap Is there some sort of nationalist pressure? I decide to play a game as France, so by sept. 1939 I had nice, modern army with plenty of armor (basic medium tanks with Heavy armor brigades), and by the End of Jan. 1940 I had annexed Germany, Slovakia, and Hungary (the Axis at that point) I had a belliegenrence rating of 104, so I decided to see how far it would fall by liberating most of my Sub-Saharan empire and Syria. It did not go particulalry far, so I had to liberate Poland and Czechoslovakia (I also liberated them from puppethood), and then Austria, Hungary, and FGR, all of which I kept as puppets and assumed military control. So, at this point my belligerance is 0.

But who cares about belligerance? In my current game my belligerance is over 300 and nobody dares to attack the Mighty Greek Empire (partly because I'm part of the Allies, yet But since I have the most advanced navy in the world and just conquered US of A. I'm gonna kick some French and British arses soon).

quote: The thing is, after I had done thi, the UK begins to liberate a bunch of imperial holdings in Africa and the ME. Is this preprogrammed, or did my actions for some reason convince the UK to let their people go?

It's preprogrammed. When my Mighty Greek Empire annexed Germany in 1938, soon UK did absolutely the same.

	28-02-2005 12:26									#29
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

What a nice picture for my Siberian eye:
(ver 1.1. dif. 3/3, my first HOI2 game actually)

Attachment: screensave.rar
This has been downloaded 5 time(s).

	28-02-2005 14:57									#30
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Serb Ban Manchuko or any of your other allies from your alliance and then you are free to join Axis.

The problem isn't when I'm playing Japan it is when the AI is playing Japan. In all of the games I've played I have only twice seen Japan join the Axis without me loading up as Japan and manually having them join the alliance.

quote: You could trade techs in HOI1? News to me. I've played as Brazil and Argentina in HOI1, after conquering of USA and all of South America I nad no problems with IC and technologies.

It was hard to get the AI to agree to it but human players would do it all the time. When the game first came out they didn't have the limit of only being able to trade one technology per month and instead you could trade every technology in one deal. The problem with trading so many techs so fast is both sides would end up having nukes by 1941 and the game would become a stalemate as any large army group would get an A-Bomb dropped on it.