Apolyton Archive  |  Preserved copy of the Apolyton Civilization Site and its forums as they stood in September 2005. Read-only; nothing here can be posted to or replied to.  |  Forum index |  About this archive |  The 1998–2001 UBB forums
Today on Apolyton WARDELL INTERVIEW PROMO A.C.S. HISTORY CHAPTER 4 GET CIV4 /w FREE PLUS! A.C.S. PHOTO GALLERY GET A.O.M. V1.1
Apolyton Civilization Forums
main| civ2| civ3| civ4| smac| ctp2| ron| moo3| galciv| galciv2| alt| about|
ApolytonPLUS | register | search | faq | new posts | pm (-/-) | upload | members
hall of fame new! | civgroups | civgroups news | interviews | the column | radio | chat | directory | news | store | PLUS
Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Alpha Centauri > AC-Democracy Team Game > The Phalanx: Special Edition #3
Show a Printable Version | Email This Page to Someone! | Receive updates to this thread | Report this to Apolyton news!
CivGroups
Alpha Centauri Democracy Game (176): Not a Member - Join
ACDG3 Spartans (32): Not a Member - Join
ACDG3 Gaians (33): Not a Member - Join
ACDG3 Morgan (29): Not a Member - Join
ACDG3 Data Angels (21): Not a Member - Join
ACDG3 CMNs (5): Not a Member - Join

bottom of page
  
Author
Thread    < Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
Kassiopeia is offline Kassiopeia
Emperor
Jyväskylä, Finland
Jul 2001
time: 07:24
  Old Post 16-02-2005 15:22 Visit Kassiopeia's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#1 Report this post to a moderator
The Phalanx: Special Edition #3 Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

The Phalanx

Due to recent events, we bring you this Special Edition of your one and only reliable news source on the Spartan Federation.



In Special Edition #3:

Failure of the Modo Doctrine?

Incidents multiply in Spartan waters, Junta "confident"

by Captain Vishniac

These last months, news of military incidents involving Spartan vessels have repeatedly stunned the citizens of the Spartan Federation.

First, the discovery of our former exploratory ship SCC Hunter hidden in a fungus field a few miles away from our key naval base of Minas Tirith gave us no alternative but its swift destruction. Everybody remembers how The Corporation controlled the minds of its crew in an act of piracy, which opened a vendetta that is going on even now.

The lack of other offensive actions from their side, and the ongoing negotiations to return to us our men and property, as well as their perceived will to sign an immediate truce, has led the Spartan population to believe that no clear and present danger is threatening our coasts, save for the ruthless Chairman Yang and his Hiverian hordes. But hiding a naval probe in sight of one of our military bases could only have one purpose: villainy! And the Spartan right of self defence had to prevail.

Now, we have just learned that a Corporation attack foil was found cruising in front of Climactic Research in the territorial waters of our ally, the University of Planet, who has made a deal with the Spartan Federation to have its coastline guarded. The presence of that foil was a clear transgression of the Modo Doctrine, Sparta expanding naturally its protection to its submissive allies, and it had to be destroyed.

Meeting the press, the Junta speaker, Lieutenant Grosskreutz said:

“These are not small matters, but I am very confident in the fine men and women serving in our Armed Forces. Though these Morganite vessels tried to conceal their presence, they got caught with their guard down every time, and our Navy has performed flawlessly in removing the threat they posed, as it will in the future as well. Our naval power is unparalleled by any other faction and everybody must realize that we are not afraid to use it to assure our survival.”

However, some say that the Junta does not completely agree on this. While Spartan naval supremacy stays unquestioned, what could have been motives of the Corporation? A high-ranked officer has told us that Morganite lack of respect for the 8-tile exclusion zone could mark the beginning of an arms race at sea and a harbinger of things to come, thus marking the actual failure of the Modo Doctrine itself. After all, what use is dissuasion if it does not dissuade?

Well-informed sources in the planetary networks explain that this aggressive Morgan attitude is caused by the dramatic situation that has been brewing these last years: an expansionist Hive is on a rampage to conquer Spartan and Gaian lands, and become Chiron’s sole superpower. Twisted minds in Morgan Industries are ready to make a Faustian pact, calculating to grab short-term gains from us and fortify their own continent, while letting a totalitarian regime impose its evil rule on the other part of this world.

Paranoid ramblings or realistic geopolitics? Regardless, the Spartan Legion, one of the most influential think-tanks in the Federation, has already decided which course of action they will push for: an extension of the Modo Doctrine to the Morganite coastline, instituting a de-facto no-sail zone for as long as would be needed, forcing the other party either to negotiate a real truce or to renounce the utilization of the rich sea resources off its coastline.

Others murmured that the Spartan military would be stretched too thin by such a long-lasting action, and that our current capability is, as the recent events have proven, more than enough to contain any enemy on or under the waves. Police actions are demoralizing for true Spartans and our force is in a strong defense and a rapid response force capable of protecting our freedom. Some even say that any further naval interdiction could be perceived as going beyond self defence, posing an effective threat to the factions with which we are living in harmony.

The Junta's seems to have a limited number of options, most of which are based on reacting to an opposing party's actions. Trying times are ahead but our emissaries know that their words are backed by the finest military machine ever, and that they might need it sooner than anyone had expected, as the failure of the Modo Doctrine would mean just that - a failure!

GeoModder is offline GeoModder
Emperor
The most erratic Overlord!
Jan 2004
time: 06:24
  Old Post 16-02-2005 21:34
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#2 Report this post to a moderator
Put an end to popups!

An 8-tile exclusion zone? Do I reek an old Earth Libyan exclusion trick here?
How on Planet are other factions to know when they enter aforementioned zone without a map being available of which waters the Spartans claim?

Maniac is offline Maniac
Emperor
Gent, Belgium
Jul 1999
time: 06:24
  Old Post 16-02-2005 21:43
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#3 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote:
Originally posted by GeoModder
An 8-tile exclusion zone?


Our ships have eight movement points. Anyway, their ships were much close to us than eight tiles.

mart7x5 is offline mart7x5
King

Sep 2002
time: 22:24
  Old Post 16-02-2005 21:51
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#4 Report this post to a moderator
Increase the size of your Attachments

quote:
Originally posted by GeoModder
How on Planet are other factions to know when they enter aforementioned zone

When you see a sea-to-sea newest Spartan Defense rocket approaching?

Modo44 is offline Modo44
Emperor
in western Poland
Jul 2004
time: 06:24
  Old Post 16-02-2005 22:05 Visit Modo44's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#5 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote:
Originally posted by GeoModder
How on Planet are other factions to know when they enter aforementioned zone without a map being available of which waters the Spartans claim?

You need but ask, whether a specific ship of yours is too close. After all we will know that. Commlinks are open, are they not?

If you try to sneak a boat through the fungus, you will not be warned. I hope our actions made this clear enough.

GeoModder is offline GeoModder
Emperor
The most erratic Overlord!
Jan 2004
time: 06:24
  Old Post 16-02-2005 23:03
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#6 Report this post to a moderator
Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote:
Originally posted by Modo44

You need but ask, whether a specific ship of yours is too close. After all we will know that. Commlinks are open, are they not?

If you try to sneak a boat through the fungus, you will not be warned. I hope our actions made this clear enough.


So are all other 'navies' of Planet supposed to announce there exact whereabouts to Sparta Command? Whisfull thinking I guess... I move that your navy challenges (meaning using comlinks) before shooting (at least at friendly factions' vessels).

And our XenoBio Centre objects strongly to trigger-happy Legion commanders destroying their remote sample-collecting probes in Seafungus. Pray tell, what harm can those do to the Junta's defensive efforts against our common foe, the Hive?

Modo44 is offline Modo44
Emperor
in western Poland
Jul 2004
time: 06:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 02:51 Visit Modo44's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#7 Report this post to a moderator
Get a bigger avatar today!

quote:
Originally posted by GeoModder
So are all other 'navies' of Planet supposed to announce there exact whereabouts to Sparta Command? Whisfull thinking I guess... I move that your navy challenges (meaning using comlinks) before shooting (at least at friendly factions' vessels).

Maybe not all in the Junta share my forcing attitude concerning our naval security. However, I feel it is justified after the transgressions of the Morganities. As the commanding officer of the Spartan navy I will tell you this: We do know when a vessel approaches, and we are more than able to deal with it.

My personal view of the matter is as folows: Either announce yourself, or become a target. Was the demonstration not obvious enough?

quote:
Originally posted by GeoModder
And our XenoBio Centre objects strongly to trigger-happy Legion commanders destroying their remote sample-collecting probes in Seafungus. Pray tell, what harm can those do to the Junta's defensive efforts against our common foe, the Hive?

Self-defense is always important. Do you really think we would allow a war to distract us from keeping our homeland safe?

Last edited by Modo44 on 17-02-2005 at 02:57

GeoModder is offline GeoModder
Emperor
The most erratic Overlord!
Jan 2004
time: 06:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 04:13
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#8 Report this post to a moderator
Suffering from ads?

quote:
Originally posted by Modo44
My personal view of the matter is as folows: Either announce yourself, or become a target. Was the demonstration not obvious enough?


As former commander of the strongest navy on the previous Planet, I can tell you that your viewpoint is nonsense in 'real game life'.
As long as no precise cartographic data of the Spartan territoria is distributed by your naval command, other factions, even friendly ones, cannot be expected to announce themself for there is simply a lack of information on what part of Planet we need to announce ourself.

quote:
Originally posted by Modo44
Self-defense is always important. Do you really think we would allow a war to distract us from keeping our homeland safe?


Knowing my former faction mates, no way!

But back to ingame matters: how do automatic xenobiological sample collectors pose a threat, assuming they did stray in the claimed Spartan territorial waters unknowingly?

Micha is offline Micha

King
Technical University of Ilmenau, Germany
Oct 2002
time: 06:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 05:32
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#9 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote:
Originally posted by GeoModder
As long as no precise cartographic data of the Spartan territoria is distributed by your naval command, other factions, even friendly ones, cannot be expected to announce themself for there is simply a lack of information on what part of Planet we need to announce ourself.


Erm, the Corporation wishes to get something straight:
We were a "friendly" faction. The unprovoked attack on a ship that was just about to be gifted to the Federation (and thus hiding in the fungus so that the surprise won´t be spoiled) was quite unexpected from our side. Especially since we have been so kind to not laugh at the Federation when they first claimed their laughable Modo-Doctrine.

However, I am not an official spokesman of the Corporation and thus this post is not affiliated with the official Morganic stance regarding this affair.

Modo44 is offline Modo44
Emperor
in western Poland
Jul 2004
time: 06:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 12:59 Visit Modo44's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#10 Report this post to a moderator
Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote:
Originally posted by GeoModder
As former commander of the strongest navy on the previous Planet, I can tell you that your viewpoint is nonsense in 'real game life'.
As long as no precise cartographic data of the Spartan territoria is distributed by your naval command, other factions, even friendly ones, cannot be expected to announce themself for there is simply a lack of information on what part of Planet we need to announce ourself.

I will tell you this. We had friendly relations with the Morganities. After announcing the Modo Doctrine, one Morgan vessel was found in our waters. We told them we knew that, and that they should remove it. Next turn we found the Hunter mind-controlled, and a Vendetta declared. So much for trying to be friendly and warning before shooting.

Perhaps this is not the attitude of other factions, but it still shows one thing. Being nice does not pay around here. Later, two Morgan vessels come around, again without any announcement. A demonstration was long overdue, so they got it.

quote:
Originally posted by GeoModder
But back to ingame matters: how do automatic xenobiological sample collectors pose a threat, assuming they did stray in the claimed Spartan territorial waters unknowingly?

It might contain a hidden probe. I would even expect it to bring one. The Spartan way of handling foreign probes is similar to what other factions practice. Stay away, or be destroyed.

Micha is offline Micha

King
Technical University of Ilmenau, Germany
Oct 2002
time: 06:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 13:58
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#11 Report this post to a moderator
Increase the size of your Attachments

quote:
Originally posted by Modo44
I will tell you this. We had friendly relations with the Morganities. After announcing the Modo Doctrine, one Morgan vessel was found in our waters. We told them we knew that, and that they should remove it.


Actually, they told us that from now on each and every vessel within x tiles from their bases (which were by then not known to us) would be destroyed.

quote:
Next turn we found the Hunter mind-controlled, and a Vendetta declared. So much for trying to be friendly and warning before shooting.


In our turn, we found a Spartan battleship just next to the position of two/third of our navy (which was completely unarmed) after our units had been moved. The MODO doctrine stated they would destroy ALL ships, so we saw our only chance to keep our precious explorers in assuming control of the battleship and later return it to the Spartans. Though they seem to not want it back, since they destroyed it some turns later...

quote:
Perhaps this is not the attitude of other factions, but it still shows one thing. Being nice does not pay around here. Later, two Morgan vessels come around, again without any announcement. A demonstration was long overdue, so they got it.


Of course they have been destroyed on sight, without any announcement. That was demonstration enough. The aggressive stance of some members of the Spartan military dictatorship government is more than worrying to us, as it should be for any other faction out there.
We really hope that more moderate leaders will take over, and of course hold no grudge against the Spartans as a whole. They just need to calm down a little.

Again, this is not the official opinion of Morgan Industries and thus is not affiliated with it in any way.

Modo44 is offline Modo44
Emperor
in western Poland
Jul 2004
time: 06:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 14:25 Visit Modo44's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#12 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote:
Originally posted by Micha
Actually, they told us that from now on each and every vessel within x tiles from their bases (which were by then not known to us) would be destroyed.

Yes, we did. It is our measure of security. As far as I know, other factions talk in a similar way of protecting their seas. We are the first one to enforce it. With good effect, I should say.

quote:
Originally posted by Micha
In our turn, we found a Spartan battleship just next to the position of two/third of our navy (which was completely unarmed) after our units had been moved. The MODO doctrine stated they would destroy ALL ships, so we saw our only chance to keep our precious explorers in assuming control of the battleship and later return it to the Spartans. Though they seem to not want it back, since they destroyed it some turns later...

Completely unarmed probes close to Spartan bases, you should add. In violation of what we considered our waters. And we both know, that you could have retreated far enough, ot of harms way. Instead, you attacked (with the "unarmed" ship...).

quote:
Originally posted by Micha
Of course they have been destroyed on sight, without any announcement. That was demonstration enough.

Good.

GeoModder is offline GeoModder
Emperor
The most erratic Overlord!
Jan 2004
time: 06:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 17:18
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#13 Report this post to a moderator
Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote:
Originally posted by Modo44
It might contain a hidden probe. I would even expect it to bring one. The Spartan way of handling foreign probes is similar to what other factions practice. Stay away, or be destroyed.


This still doesn't tell other factions which waters to avoid for the possibility of Spartan hostilities. And if the Junta in general is so distrustful of a fellow faction which it had only cordial relations with, perhaps ties with the Junta should be reconsidered.

mart7x5 is offline mart7x5
King

Sep 2002
time: 22:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 17:22
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#14 Report this post to a moderator
Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote:
Originally posted by GeoModder


... still doesn't tell other factions which waters to avoid for the possibility of Spartan hostilities. ...

yup, it obstructs tourism

Modo44 is offline Modo44
Emperor
in western Poland
Jul 2004
time: 06:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 17:26 Visit Modo44's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#15 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote:
Originally posted by GeoModder
This still doesn't tell other factions which waters to avoid for the possibility of Spartan hostilities.

Well, I suppose you could ask for warnings in general, without "revealing" the position of any specific ship.

quote:
Originally posted by GeoModder
And if the Junta in general is so distrustful of a fellow faction which it had only cordial relations with, perhaps ties with the Junta should be reconsidered.

The Junta is probably less distrustful. I am expressing my personal opinions on the matter. If you wish to know the official position of Sparta, ask in the Embassy.

Googlie is offline Googlie
Emperor
Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:24
  Old Post 18-02-2005 03:25 Visit Googlie's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#16 Report this post to a moderator
Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote:
Originally posted by GeoModder

So are all other 'navies' of Planet supposed to announce their exact whereabouts to Sparta Command? Wishfull thinking I guess...


Ah, but you forget ....... we have the Maritime Control Center, one of whose little known benefits is the plot locations (latitudes and longtitudes) of every vessel on Chiron oceans


.............. no, wait, that can't be right. These plotpoints must be coming from our fleet of nine missile cruisers (Aegis Class) out on patrol

Modo44 is offline Modo44
Emperor
in western Poland
Jul 2004
time: 06:24
  Old Post 18-02-2005 03:45 Visit Modo44's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#17 Report this post to a moderator
Put an end to popups!

I thought that was what I said, only without telling to many details. Shall we now reveal our planned fleet totals? No? Ok.

* Modo44 turns off the MCC console *

Snoddasmannen is offline Snoddasmannen
Prince

Jul 2004
time: 06:24
  Old Post 18-02-2005 12:46
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#18 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote:
Originally posted by Micha The unprovoked attack on a ship that was just about to be gifted to the Federation (and thus hiding in the fungus so that the surprise won´t be spoiled)


Aww shucks, that was sweet of you guys, we really had no idea

Anyway, you are all lucky we went with the Modo doctrine, which I personally consider most generous. If I had succeeded in deploying the Snoddasmannen doctrine, you would require special clearance from Sparta Command to go swimming! (Not to mention the paperwork required to take a shower )

GeoModder is offline GeoModder
Emperor
The most erratic Overlord!
Jan 2004
time: 06:24
  Old Post 18-02-2005 17:07
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#19 Report this post to a moderator
Tired of ads?

arginine is offline arginine
Prince

Apr 2004
time: 05:24
  Old Post 19-02-2005 01:20
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#20 Report this post to a moderator
Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

You know, if negotiations had happened regarding territorial waters, there would be a whole lot less B.S. and ambiguity and you guys could have a profitable peace or a REAL war.

(On the other hand negotiations might have happened in the last 10 years without me knowing).

Maniac is offline Maniac
Emperor
Gent, Belgium
Jul 1999
time: 06:24
  Old Post 19-02-2005 04:34
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#21 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Arginine, are you still a member of the Corporation? You don't appear on the Morganite memberlist.

arginine is offline arginine
Prince

Apr 2004
time: 05:24
  Old Post 20-02-2005 01:57
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#22 Report this post to a moderator
Put an end to popups!

I have not been involved with the Corporation (Morgan Industries) since mid december. I think that was around turn 2150.

  < Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:24.
Apolyton Time is 00:24.
    top of page
Rate This Thread:
Forum Jump:
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 




Contact Us - Apolyton Civilization Site - Support Us!

Building a better Apolyton through better information. Click here and take our poll!
Non-US visitors, click here!

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.0.3
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.

Page generated in 0.0564 seconds (91.20% PHP - 8.80% MySQL) with 61 queries
Page Loading Time:

Support Apolyton: Amazon USA | Amazon UK | Amazon DE | Amazon FR |
Support Apolyton and get FREE PLUS, Buy from Chips&Bits: Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition | Call to Power 2 | Civilization: The Boardgame | GURPS/ Alpha Centauri | Alpha Centauri | Civilization IV | Civilization III: Complete |


Front Page | Civilization IV | Civilization III | Civilization II | Call to Power II | Alpha Centauri | Master of Orion III
Rise of Nations | Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations II | Misc
Alt.Civs | Civ I | C:CtP I | About | News | Directory | Apolyton Store | Forums | Chat | Columns | Interviews | Newsletter
Scenario League | CSC | Clash of Civs | Spanish Site | CtP Maps | Cradle of Civ | WesW's Ctp1/2 Site | Civ3 Haven

apolyton.net | apolyton.com | civilization2.net | civilization3.net | civilization4.net | civilizationiv.info | calltopower.net | galciv.net | galciv2.net | moo3.net