17-02-2005 09:27									#1
	Known cheats in Civ 3 Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hi all,

Although I think this entire thread is almost redundant due to the knowledge that Civ 4 is in production, if there is any AI cheat you have spotted, whether a new or seasoned player, feel free to discuss them here without snipy comments from seasoned "Kings" etc.

I'm about finished once my final game is played in Civ 3, but for starters;

1) The AI warships will attack your submarines if a submarine sits in the path of the pre-designated AI route, not otherwise.

2) Once the Industrial era begins, most nations will be "annoyed" with you at least, but the least important one or two trading partners will remain polite.

3) At some point, for no reason, whilst playing on a huge continent map, your best trading partner will spend 400 years sending 15 Knights and 30 Warriors/Spearmen and Pikeman from the other side of the map to attack you, thus depriving themselves of the furs/Gems et al they needed in the first place, and the money you also needed.

4) The AI always gives "Right of Passage" to all other nations- this allows the crazy situation listed above, until they go to war.

5) A "Mutual defence pact" ensures you go to war with a friendly nation, due to your AI partner, whilst without one, many nations will join in against you IF you don't capture any of the enemy cities within about 5 turns.

6) Warwariness is a significant factor in democracy, the AI is programmed to understand this I feel. I usually play with both conquest and space race options enabled, anyone have experience of playing with different options and having a different general AI experience? (Most nations seem to test you on this system by ramdom AI agression, like in Civ 2, although they always got very polite once a nuke was made in Civ 2)- whatever your style of play.

7) "Playing the AI": We all know this; The AI is so stupid in it's use of the map knowedge, when it has decided upon your weakest city, it will leave it's own empire almost undefended whilst attacking yours, It will choose the nearest city to their location you own, and go forward with one square-moving pieces (by the way, they will usually be your best trading partner- I tracked the Romans using a scout as they moved towards my border, yet always polite whilst passing Aztec and Indian lands to reach my border, and taking soooo long to reach my prepared border), only to hurt both of us. oh,and I've destroyed all the fast units before the defence units arrive, still, the AI aint bright, let alone logical.....

8) Okay. You have never declared war upon any nation?, but now you want to get even with those that attacked yours?
I've noticed that placing your military stacks well away from a border changes defensive attittudes by the stroppy nation/s, whilst placing your armies/units within 2 squares of the border will ensure the AI never decides to attack you- fullstop. Not good AI, odd AI if you have 30 units gathering ready to attack your nation, place your stacks far away- the further the better as that way the AI can't compute the city you MAY attack and leaves it confused. but it still knows where all your units are.

One thing I've never tested yet, is the deterrent, is it sending a single spearmen unit to the border?

Also the AI seems to be unable to cope if you "catch them in the act" of moving troops through your neighbours territory territory, but will still attack the chosen city. I'm certain that wizen chap called "what's his name" might know. However, once the AI looks at your defence in a given city it will then gather and go, once it's left the national border it won't stop, whilst gathering it will.

9) The AI dislikes aggressive troop movements as above, I stopped an American attack by simply placing two more infantry regiments in the town, yet although they are "annoyed" with me for no reason at all, geographically Rome is both our biggest threat in this game and I'm heading for Space race in this game, and have yet to declare war on another throughout the game- another cheat (those that did are gone now).

Logically, with decent AI I should be best mates with America, but to keep options open for WAR the AI will remain "annoyed" forever, or even "furious", as are the two remaining former allies, once Rome is gone, only allies remain, oddly the AI ensures they will or do hate you.

Any other cheats anyone? Anyone tried a high-level peaceful game?

Toby

	18-02-2005 20:26									#2
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Some things you identify are cheats, others are bugs (submarine thingy you mention) and others are programming deficiencies.

Yes, the AI has problems -- especially with strategic strategy. Come to think of it, even the tactical strategy the AI is weak.

You might want to check out some of the threads in the archive that address AI's attitude -- it really helped me understand their crazy behavior -- just a little bit.

	18-02-2005 22:25									#3
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quote: You might want to check out some of the threads in the archive that address AI's attitude -- it really helped me understand their crazy behavior -- just a little bit.

There's a very good thread, even deffinitive one over at CFC, shouldn't be to hard to locate either.

	18-02-2005 22:33									#4
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Regarding trying a "high-level" peaceful game...

If you mean difficulty level, it's very, very hard to win -- or even survive - playing a peaceful strategy at advanced (top 2 or 3 difficulty levels).

I've done it on warlord before...never bothered trying again...either it's too difficult or I'm too tempted to use my military anyway

	21-02-2005 08:22									#5
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Just had this happen in the last game I played - The Mongols (on their island) declared war on me (on my island). (OK, they were both actually continents that we had to ourselves, after eliminating the other civs who wanted to share that space.) They had good reason to declare war because even though I wasn't being aggressive toward them I was the dominant power and they were a not-too-distant second.

The cheat involved the IA's unfair knowledge of the map. I was sending troops to their shores on transports, and those transports were being bombed by land-based bombers when there was no way the IA should have known where they were, as they had not passed within observation range of any unit. I suppose they could have been stealing my military plans every turn to get the location of all my units, but they didn't have the money for that. I suppose they could have been sending their bombers out on a whim to bomb random ocean squares and just gotten really lucky, but I don't know if you can do that as I've never tried it as I usually have better targets for my bombers.

	21-02-2005 18:37									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The human player cannot send bombers to bomb an empty square. You don't get the "crosshairs" icon allowing you to execute that option. I assume the AI player has the same restriction...

If they had fighters, they may have been scouting the area...

The reality is that the AI is cheating. This has happened to me on a number of occasions. Somehow that AI just can't help itself -- its just gotta cheat. This way I don't feel bad when I restart due to a poor start location

	28-02-2005 08:36									#7
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Hi all.

Sorry about my post. it was one of the most muddled I've ever written, but was annoyed by a poster.

Put simply, the AI knows what you are doing and where you are doing it, but it has no concept of a diplomatic/trading friendship.

(Which) most humans would attach some importance to, and tends to send out units from your best trading partner from the other end of the map, thus ending a fruitful relationship for both. without you being able to retaliate effectively unless you wish to own many cities way-away from your own Civ.


Right of Passage is a "given" in the AI diplomatic game- refuse it and you will have the first war sooner than you wish, even if you don't want one.

If you want a Space Race outcome then expect other armies outside London having a daily fight with each other, whilst you are trying to move each worker around them to make your nation better, whilst they both abuse your border.

Civ 3 makes wanting to be a peaceful nation as difficult as possible, I hope Civ 4 changes this- I don't always want to conquer the other nations and I'd like to see an AI that understands my total lack of agression- can't be hard?

Toby