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Kalius is offline Kalius
Emperor
Kriegsgewitter
Aug 2002
time: 16:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 12:21
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Seven Nuclear Bombs worth of plutonium gone from Sellafield Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4272691.stm

quote:
Enough plutonium to make seven nuclear bombs is unaccounted for in the records of Sellafield power station, British Nuclear Group is expected to announce.

The Times claims an annual audit due to be published later will show that 30kg of plutonium is classified as "material unaccounted for" during 2004.

A BBC correspondent expected British Nuclear Fuels to admit a "paper loss".

And the Department of Trade and Industry said the audit "does not represent any material going missing".

The discrepancy, which compares with a 19kg discrepancy at the plant in 2003, is expected to embarrass the British Nuclear Group, which manages the facility.

In a statement, the DTI said: "This is an accounting process.

"It's not unusual for the accounting process to indicate material unaccounted for.

"Again, it's not an indication of any missing material."

Plutonium is a man-made radioactive metal that can be used as a nuclear fuel and a nuclear weapon.

Sellafield processes thousands of tons of nuclear material every year.

British Nuclear Fuels, the parent company of BNG, is yet to comment on the situation but are expected to do so on Thursday.

'Dramatic development'

BBC Science Correspondent Sue Nelson said the company is expected to play down any fears by saying that any unaccounted materials will be "within the standards of allowed measurement inaccuracies".

They are expected to play down fears by saying it is a "paper loss", rather than a physical one, she said.

Dr Frank Barnaby, a nuclear weapons specialist, told the Times: "There will always be some material unaccounted for but this is a dramatic development.

"This is a major reason for not reprocessing spent nuclear fuel because you can't tell what the material unaccounted for is."


How can you downplay the loss of seven bombs worth of plutonium!? Awfully scary.

DaShi is offline DaShi
Prince
The Taste of Japan
Sep 2000
time: 05:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 12:26
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I'm sure it will turn up buried in someone's backyard.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 12:29
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Oops

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 12:31
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They point out that this doesn't mean it's gone it just means it's some where not where they thought.

Kalius is offline Kalius
Emperor
Kriegsgewitter
Aug 2002
time: 16:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 12:32
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This could indeed mean many places

alva is offline alva
Emperor
Republic of Flanders
Sep 2001
time: 06:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 12:38
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Y'all better hope Bushie ain't readin' this...

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
Emperor
United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 12:40 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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We're going to have to invade

Or add the UK to the "Compounds of Corruption," "Outposts of Tyranny," and "Fortresses of Oppression," lists.


Or send in Jack Bauer to clean house.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 12:43
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If they can make plutonium disappear then maybe we should ship them our nuclear waste.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 12:43
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$5 says they find plutonium buried in the desert just outside of Baghdad.

alva is offline alva
Emperor
Republic of Flanders
Sep 2001
time: 06:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 12:45
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...like say a week before the election??

Kalius is offline Kalius
Emperor
Kriegsgewitter
Aug 2002
time: 16:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 12:50
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quote:
If they can make plutonium disappear then maybe we should ship them our nuclear waste.


The UK already sends it's plastic recycled waste to China to make into clothing.

DaShi is offline DaShi
Prince
The Taste of Japan
Sep 2000
time: 05:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 13:13
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So you mean hot green is a real color of t-shirt?

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 13:18
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Britain should be bombed out of existence.

They aren't good at anything except whining. They suck at football, at cricket, and now at basic nuclear security.

And they don't wash.

Drop the bomb. Destroy them all. Grrrr...

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

Donate to the Red Cross
The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 13:45
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quote:

Enough plutonium to make seven nuclear bombs is unaccounted for in the records of Sellafield power station, British Nuclear Group is expected to announce.

The Times claims an annual audit due to be published later will show that 30kg of plutonium is classified as "material unaccounted for" during 2004.


By the by, I am not holding my breath.

Cruddy is offline Cruddy
Warlord

Mar 2003
time: 05:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 23:00 Visit Cruddy's homepage!
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Those figures look screwy to me. I thought it took about 30 kilos plus of material to make one bomb.

Critical mass and all that... any atom physics heads around?

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:24
  Old Post 18-02-2005 00:11
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quote:
Those figures look screwy to me. I thought it took about 30 kilos plus of material to make one bomb.

Critical mass and all that... any atom physics heads around?


Dud, this is the internet. If you want to know how to make a nuclear weapon, use Google.

child of Thor is offline child of Thor
Emperor
UK
Jan 2002
time: 05:24
  Old Post 18-02-2005 00:17
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I guess this is one of the problems with using nuclear power as an energy source?

They'll probably find that the 30kgs never exsited in the first place, probably an error when they were updateing some database figures that the 'temp' made, or something like that. At least one hopes that's the case.

There hasn't been much of a fuss over this here yet, which is strange.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:24
  Old Post 18-02-2005 00:18
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pchang is offline pchang
King
Cupertino?
Aug 1999
time: 05:24
  Old Post 18-02-2005 00:21
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You can construct a weapon with much less than 30Kg of Plutonium if it is pure enough.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:24
  Old Post 18-02-2005 00:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
Dud, this is the internet. If you want to know how to make a nuclear weapon, use Google.

http://www.geocities.com/sooterkin/atomic.html

Dauphin is offline Dauphin
Emperor
Caught in a tuna net
Jan 1970
time: 05:24
  Old Post 18-02-2005 00:27
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Its not like a the loss in blocks of materail. Its due to what is effectively a back of the envelope estimate of how much plutonium should have leached out of the recycled material.

quote:
The process then involves cutting up the fuel rods, dissolving them in acid and then separating the solution into three streams — uranium, plutonium, and high-level waste.

At each stage of the process the material is weighed and calculations made of the amounts of plutonium it contains. All this has to be done remotely behind shielding because of the radioactivity involved.

At the end of the process the weight of the plutonium recovered ought to balance with the estimates of the amount put in. They seldom do, but the discrepancy is rarely as large as it is this year.

Provost Harrison is offline Provost Harrison
Emperor
The farce is strong with this one.
Feb 2000
time: 05:24
  Old Post 18-02-2005 00:44
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30kg of plutonium, nice, enough to wipe out the population of earth (theoretically) 4 times over...

Vlad Antlerkov is offline Vlad Antlerkov
King
Do you have Matt Stairs in your house?
Mar 1999
time: 23:24
  Old Post 18-02-2005 00:45 Visit Vlad Antlerkov's homepage!
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It's Clinton's fault.

child of Thor is offline child of Thor
Emperor
UK
Jan 2002
time: 05:24
  Old Post 18-02-2005 00:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Dauphin
Its not like a the loss in blocks of materail. Its due to what is effectively a back of the envelope estimate of how much plutonium should have leached out of the recycled material.

quote:
The process then involves cutting up the fuel rods, dissolving them in acid and then separating the solution into three streams — uranium, plutonium, and high-level waste.

At each stage of the process the material is weighed and calculations made of the amounts of plutonium it contains. All this has to be done remotely behind shielding because of the radioactivity involved.

At the end of the process the weight of the plutonium recovered ought to balance with the estimates of the amount put in. They seldom do, but the discrepancy is rarely as large as it is this year.


So from those last two paragraphs it would seem that its merely a bean-counting error? It has to be right? How could someone siphone of 30kgs of highly radiactive material and smuggle it out of the power plant(this is what we're all worried about after all)?

It's not really possible is it, mostly due to how nasty the stuff is to handle and move around?

reds4ever is offline reds4ever
Prince
of the Spion Kop
Mar 2001
time: 05:24
  Old Post 18-02-2005 01:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin
They point out that this doesn't mean it's gone it just means it's some where not where they thought.


OBL's cave in Khandahar

Dauphin is offline Dauphin
Emperor
Caught in a tuna net
Jan 1970
time: 05:24
  Old Post 18-02-2005 01:16
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quote:
Originally posted by child of Thor


So from those last two paragraphs it would seem that its merely a bean-counting error? It has to be right? How could someone siphone of 30kgs of highly radiactive material and smuggle it out of the power plant(this is what we're all worried about after all)?

It's not really possible is it, mostly due to how nasty the stuff is to handle and move around?


I've never audited the stuff but I would guess it goes something like this:

1,000 kg of material should have 1 +/- 0.2% plutonium, so per the books we should have 10kg of plutonium. The sample we have has 0.8% plutonium for whatever reason. So we really have 8kg of plutonium and magically we have lost 2kg that was never really there before we even do a measurement. We then measure the amount of plutonium to an accuracy of 10% and we end up only measuring 7.5kg. Well done, we just lost 25% of our plutonium.

Whoha is offline Whoha
King
The TOC is supposed to be classified guys...
Dec 2001
time: 23:24
  Old Post 18-02-2005 01:39
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uh o spaghettio.

Provost Harrison is offline Provost Harrison
Emperor
The farce is strong with this one.
Feb 2000
time: 05:24
  Old Post 18-02-2005 02:50
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Is that a technical term in the nuclear industry?

Dauphin is offline Dauphin
Emperor
Caught in a tuna net
Jan 1970
time: 05:24
  Old Post 18-02-2005 02:57
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You never know. They may have use of spaghetti calorimeters.

child of Thor is offline child of Thor
Emperor
UK
Jan 2002
time: 05:24
  Old Post 18-02-2005 03:18
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I dont know......it could have been a deliberate attempt to illegaly obtain some. Dirty bombs and all that jazz?

But it is weirdly comforting to think it might just be a mistake by a Homer Simpson somewhere in the chain

 
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