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DaShi is offline DaShi
Prince
The Taste of Japan
Sep 2000
time: 05:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 12:52
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Girl Power 2? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/17/i...html?oref=login

quote:

As Girls 'Vanish,' Chinese City Battles Tide of Abortions
By HOWARD W. FRENCH

Published: February 17, 2005


GUIYANG, China - The warning hanging above a main street could not have been more blunt, its big white characters set off against a bright red banner promising to "firmly crack down on the criminal activity of drowning and other ways of brutally killing female babies."

Just across the way, though, in equally large letters, the advertisement above a medical clinic promoted ultrasound tests, which have long been used in China to detect the sex of babies, as a prelude to aborting female fetuses. "I don't know what happens elsewhere, but we don't do gender tests here," said a 48-year-old doctor who gave her name only as Li. "Our equipment can't detect the sex before six months. The machine is too small."

Beginning in January, this city enacted a pioneering ban on abortions after the 14th week of pregnancy, part of a campaign to address one of the world's biggest gaps between male and female childbirths that, though piecemeal, is quickly gathering momentum across China. National laws already prohibit sonograms for gender detection, which becomes possible after the 14th week, but the law has been spottily enforced.

"The current situation has severely affected the city's population and family planning work," Luo Zhuyun, the city's deputy mayor, said in a recent interview with the Guiyang Dushibao, a local newspaper. "It has also had a great impact on the local economy, the use of resources and the prospects for sustainable development. There is no time to delay."

If anything, though, the experience of Guiyang reveals how difficult a task China faces in trying to fine-tune its 25-year-old "one-child policy," one of the most ambitious social engineering measures ever attempted.

Judged against the goal of slowing the growth of China's population, which is the world's largest, the policy has been a great success. Chinese planners appear to have underestimated the urge of couples to have sons, though, a desire that drives many to desperate lengths. And a result has been a human and public health disaster, with the large-scale abortion of female fetuses and the routine killing or abandonment of baby girls.

Given the strength of this desire for male heirs, Guiyang's bid to rein in its gender imbalance - 129 boys born for every 100 girls, and 147 to 100 for couples seeking second or third children - might seem doomed in advance. Gynecology clinics offering ultrasound tests do a flourishing business in this city, and are more common in many neighborhoods than convenience stores. Try as one may to find one, though, nary a doctor here acknowledges engaging in the practice of sex detection.

It was an unusually slow day for Dr. Wang Jin at his thriving, two-storefront clinic in Wangchengpo, a cluttered hillside neighborhood favored by rural migrants, where a dozen clinics compete for the ultrasound and abortion business. "Almost everyone wants to know the gender of their child," Dr. Wang said, interrupting his hotpot pork lunch to speak with a visitor. "Out of 100 people, perhaps 90 ask. With migrant workers it is 100 percent."

The doctor said he performed as many as 400 abortions a year in his crowded, crudely furnished clinic, where women disappear in shallow stalls behind skimpy blue curtains for examinations. It costs $17 for the basic service, or twice that amount for what Dr. Wang called a "painless abortion," meaning one with anesthesia.

Dr. Wang, whose foot tapped nervously throughout a 45-minute conversation, said he performed the procedure for unmarried women who became pregnant and for women who, for job-related reasons, did not wish to have a child. But like every doctor spoken to here, he denied ever performing a selective-sex abortion for any patient, or for that matter, even performing a sonogram gender test for a woman. The most he would allow is that he is often asked.

Dr. Wang said that patients, who are usually aware that sonogram gender exams are proscribed, came in and asked bluntly, "How much money do you need?"

Although he steadfastly denied performing the tests, he implicitly acknowledged that the temptation for some would be too strong to suppress. "It's impossible for regulations to stop abortion," he said. "Most Chinese people are law abiding, but there are doctors who will be willing to do this, although very few."

The next day, during an unannounced visit, a woman was found in the midst of an ultrasound test at the clinic. "What do you mean by asking do I prefer a boy or a girl?" said the patient, Wang Wanqing, who gave her age as 20, but looked considerably younger. "It makes no difference. My husband feels the same way."

Yang Junchang, an expert in population studies at Guiyang University, praised the local initiative, but said the problem evaded quick fixes. "The reason people want a boy is because the level of economic development is low and the social security system is flawed," Mr. Yang said. "A boy is a fortune and a resource to a family. People wanting a sex check in order to have a boy will certainly continue, and if Guiyang disallows it, they will go somewhere else."

To hear some local doctors, going somewhere else would not be necessary, even with the new law in place. Physically, the little walk-in clinic Jiang Xifeng operates toward the back of a junk-strewn cul-de-sac perfectly fits the description back-alley. The 58-year-old doctor who owns it, though, was the former head of a county hospital, and attributes her clinic's modesty in part to the fact that she adheres to the rules.

"Some clinics borrow other people's licenses to do this sort of thing," Dr. Jiang said of the ultrasound tests. "Others call on off-duty doctors from the hospitals to ask them if they will perform abortions." Turning to the ultrasound machines themselves, she said "there are holes in the system, because they only cost about 10,000 yuan," or a little more than $1,000. Dr. Jiang added that in three to six months someone could learn how to operate a machine.

Sitting behind an unvarnished wooden table in her one-room clinic on a Saturday morning, with her husband and 9-year-old grandson by her side, Dr. Jiang pointed off in the distance to say there were numerous clinics in the area where sonograms and selective-sex abortions were still readily available. "The safety is very poor, though, because the ability of these little clinics to respond to emergencies is really limited."

As she spoke, her husband, Liu Yongmao, shook his head. "I've seen women losing huge amounts of blood like that," he said. "It's very unsafe."


With a 'crackdown' here I expect this to decrease for a month then go back to the way it was or worse. Now I'm off to buy some DVDs.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 12:53
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Deja Vu.

DaShi is offline DaShi
Prince
The Taste of Japan
Sep 2000
time: 05:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 12:54
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Full PM-box? Change here!

So good, I posted it twice.

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 13:05
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Spreading the workload, Da Shi?

alva is offline alva
Emperor
Republic of Flanders
Sep 2001
time: 06:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 13:05
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Remove this text

He beat you to it.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=129660

:) Smiley is offline :) Smiley
Emperor
USCA, Berkeley
Feb 2001
time: 21:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 13:09 Visit :) Smiley's homepage!
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#6 Report this post to a moderator
Increase the size of your Attachments

Attacking the effect and not the cause is a losing proposition.

Those old habits sure die hard though, if 50 years of communist policy and 20 years of double-digit economic growth doesn't fix it, I'm not quite sure just what will.

alva is offline alva
Emperor
Republic of Flanders
Sep 2001
time: 06:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 13:23
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What's more important though is; will Dashi be banned because:

A. making three threads in 24 hours?
B. Making a copy-cat thread?

BeBro is offline BeBro
King
of the Krauts
Mar 2000
time: 06:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 15:36 Visit BeBro's homepage!
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#8 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?

C. Posting the "Japanese Sex Trade" tread only once?

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 21:08 Visit DanS's homepage!
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#9 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?

Why does this insanity persist, when binding of feet and similar insanity has gone by the wayside?

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 22:35
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Economics, girls don't make as much as boys and elderly Chinese must rely upon children (child with the one child policy) so they feel their economic survival in old age will depend upon having a male heir.

pchang is offline pchang
King
Cupertino?
Aug 1999
time: 05:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 22:37
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Sex is the answer Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

But, thanks to the sex trade, Chinese women can easily make much more money than Chinese men. See one os Dashi's previous threads.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:24
  Old Post 17-02-2005 22:39
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Suffering from ads?

Until she gets aids and dies or becomes old so the sex perverts no longer want her.

:) Smiley is offline :) Smiley
Emperor
USCA, Berkeley
Feb 2001
time: 21:24
  Old Post 18-02-2005 04:49 Visit :) Smiley's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
Why does this insanity persist, when binding of feet and similar insanity has gone by the wayside?


That took a while to get rid of; and abortions are harder to detect. It's easy to tell that it's happening, but hard to confirm who specifically is doing it.

DaShi is offline DaShi
Prince
The Taste of Japan
Sep 2000
time: 05:24
  Old Post 18-02-2005 15:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Smiley
Attacking the effect and not the cause is a losing proposition.

Those old habits sure die hard though, if 50 years of communist policy and 20 years of double-digit economic growth doesn't fix it, I'm not quite sure just what will.


Agreed, I haven't a clue what they could do. Kudos to China for not ignoring it, but censure for poor enforement. Especially considering how well 'subversion' laws are enforced.

Poor Ted, fewer Chinese girls for him to hit.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

Donate to the Red Cross
The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:24
  Old Post 18-02-2005 21:48
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#15 Report this post to a moderator
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quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin
Economics, girls don't make as much as boys and elderly Chinese must rely upon children (child with the one child policy) so they feel their economic survival in old age will depend upon having a male heir.


The one-child policy affects only city dwellers, and people who can afford sonograms to determine the gender of the fetus are quite well off.

DaShi is offline DaShi
Prince
The Taste of Japan
Sep 2000
time: 05:24
  Old Post 18-02-2005 23:37
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#16 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Did you read the article, by chance?

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