19-02-2005 19:03									#31
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quote: Hasn't the Longhorn beta been delayed again?

Yep, ETA is now 2016

	20-02-2005 02:04									#32
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger OTOH, I haven't seen any Linux kernel patch that breaks applications.

I haven't seen any Windows kernel patch that breaks applications too.

SP2 didn't have big changes to the kernel, silly.

	20-02-2005 02:05									#33
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Agathon Really? None of my apps have broken due to updates. There were a few ones that didn't make the transition from OS 9 to the Classic Shell, but none I ever used.

I'm sure you know your computer history -- one of the infamous errors of Apple was not offering backwards compatability, while Wintel did.

	20-02-2005 02:51									#34
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quote: I'm sure you know your computer history -- one of the infamous errors of Apple was not offering backwards compatability, while Wintel did.

For what? Crappy old apps from the 80s?

	20-02-2005 03:29									#35
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And once again a promising thread has been taken over by the Windows vs Apple people. Rehashing the same posts over and over Can't you guys do it by PM and leave the rest of us alone?

And I agree with Che on IE7. Another Explorer to take into account while building sites. That's gonna make four of them

	20-02-2005 09:34									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I haven't seen any Windows kernel patch that breaks applications too. SP2 didn't have big changes to the kernel, silly.

There are no Windows "kernel" patches, because Windows is one big blob.

	20-02-2005 09:35									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Hueij And I agree with Che on IE7. Another Explorer to take into account while building sites. That's gonna make four of them

We can always hope that it's a back port of Mac IE

	20-02-2005 11:45									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger There are no Windows "kernel" patches, because Windows is one big blob.

There are no Windows kernel patches, because the Windows kernel is more of a microkernel than, say, Linux. Linux's kernel dwarfs the NT kernel in size, as it's monolithic.

It is therefore anything but a "big blob", it's a tiny component. The "big blob" is the Linux kernel, which is why it has many, many times more security vulnerabilities than the Windows NT kernel.

You still do not seem to comprehend this.

	20-02-2005 20:43									#39
	Tired of ads?

What file or files comprise the Windows kernel, Asher? kernel32.dll in the WinXP System32 directory is just shy of 1 MB. My vmlinuz-2.6.8.1-24mdk kernel in my /boot directory is about 1.3 MB, though I do have 70 modules inserted into it as well. Is there any way to get some sort of "like for like" size comparison?

	20-02-2005 21:37									#40
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

No.

	21-02-2005 07:51									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Asher It is therefore anything but a "big blob", it's a tiny component. The "big blob" is the Linux kernel, which is why it has many, many times more security vulnerabilities than the Windows NT kernel.

Is that why a flaw in IE lets an attacker own your Wintel box?

quote: Originally posted by Asher You still do not seem to comprehend this.

What I don't comprehend is how MS fanboys can be so detached from reality. They must all live in the same MSverse.

	21-02-2005 07:53									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Is that why a flaw in IE lets an attacker own your Wintel box?

Last I checked, IE wasn't part of the Windows kernel.

quote: What I don't comprehend is how MS fanboys can be so detached from reality. They must all live in the same MSverse.

You're the one using IE security holes to argue that the Windows kernel is one big blob

	21-02-2005 08:34									#43
	Got spare money?

I was using OSX the other day. I managed to crash it twice, and the apps I was using (ImageReady & Dreamweaver) three times. Mac

	21-02-2005 08:43									#44
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Boy, the flame-baiters are out in force.

	21-02-2005 09:43									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Is that why a flaw in IE lets an attacker own your Wintel box?

Internet Explorer does not run from the Windows Kernel...

I'm starting to wonder if you even comprehend what a kernel is. It honestly would not surprise me if you didn't know, your computer knowledge that you try to present here is obviously superficial.

quote: What I don't comprehend is how MS fanboys can be so detached from reality. They must all live in the same MSverse.

I think you need a reality check yourself -- see your response about Internet Explorer vulnerabilities as a retort to a slam against Kernels.

	21-02-2005 09:54									#46
	Increase Your PM Length

Well, the terminologies are misleading different. Windows isn't just an operating system. It's also a graphical environment, a suite of utilities, and a bazillion other things.

Linux is just the kernel. The utilities are GNU, the graphical enironment is X, the graphical controls are QT/GTK/etc, and so on.

But Asher is technically right and Urban Ranger is technically wrong. There are more holes in a Windows installation than in a Linux installation, but there are more holes in the Linux kernel than in the Windows kernel.

An OS has a system space and a user space. The kernel is system space and the applications are user space. Switching between the two incurs overhead, and a lot of things can only be done in system space. So, you can stick humongous hardware drivers into system space and bloat the kernel, or you can keep them in user space and suffer a penalty every time you switch contexts to the slim kernel.

Is it just me or is the above incoherent? Bah, humbug.

	21-02-2005 11:02									#47
	Increase Your PM Length

Sticking everything in the kernel also makes the kernel less structured and harder to maintain, which leads to those bugs everybody's talking about.

SP

	21-02-2005 11:04									#48
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

In the last thread where the kernels were discussed, UR let it drop (as usual) off the front pages.

He was making fun of Windows for being monolithic at that point.

	21-02-2005 14:41									#49
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quote: I was using OSX the other day. I managed to crash it twice, and the apps I was using (ImageReady & Dreamweaver) three times. Mac

So you're a lamer. What else is new?