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nostromo is offline nostromo
Prince
Montréal, Québec
Mar 2002
time: 00:23
  Old Post 18-02-2005 01:25
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IE 7, coming soon Increase the size of your Attachments

IE 7 will be coming sooner than anticipated. The beta will be out this summer.

quote:
SAN FRANCISCO--Reversing a longstanding Microsoft policy, Bill Gates said Tuesday that the company will ship an update to its browser separately from the next major version of Windows.

A beta, or test, version of Internet Explorer 7 will debut this summer, Microsoft's chairman and chief software architect said in a keynote address at the RSA Conference 2005 here. The company had said that it would not ship a new IE version before the next major update to Windows, code-named Longhorn, arrives next year.

In announcing the plan, Gates acknowledged something that many outside the company had been arguing for some time--that the browser itself has become a security risk.

"Browsing is definitely a point of vulnerability," Gates said.

The new browser version will work on machines running on Windows XP Service Pack 2, a security-focused update to the operating system that the company launched last summer, Gates said.

Mike Nash, an executive in Microsoft's security business and technology unit, said in an interview that Microsoft has not determined how or when the final version of IE 7 will ship, but that it is planned ahead of Longhorn.

Nash said it has not been decided whether IE 7 will come with a different Windows update, such as a security revamp.

"We'll be updating Windows on a regular basis," he said. "How the browser gets packaged--whether it's with a service pack--has not been nailed down. There is going to be a Service Pack 3 (of Windows XP). That's not a surprise. How that relates to (IE 7's release), we haven't figured out yet."

As recently as August, Microsoft said that no new stand-alone version was planned before Longhorn, and the company reiterated back then that its plan was to make new IE features available with major Windows releases. "At this time, there are no plans to release a new stand-alone version of IE," a Microsoft representative said.

Is Microsoft reacting to growing concerns about browser security, or does Firefox have it on the run? In November, Microsoft opened the door slightly to improving IE before Longhorn, though it indicated that improvements might come through add-ons to the browser, rather than through an updated version of IE.

Analysts attributed Microsoft's change of heart to the progress of the Mozilla Foundation's Firefox browser, which has made incremental but steady market share gains against IE in recent months. In a survey conducted late last year, Firefox nudged IE below the 90 percent mark for the first time since the height of the browser wars in the 1990s.

"I think it's a response to both the delay of Longhorn and the challenge of Firefox," said NPD Group analyst Ross Rubin, who added that Firefox was probably the sharper spur. "Were there no Firefox, they'd have more leeway to sit on it until Longhorn."


Bart Decrem, a founding member of the Mozilla Foundation, former head of its marketing and business development and current volunteer, said that Microsoft clearly was responding to the group's work.


You can read the rest of the article
here

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:23
  Old Post 18-02-2005 01:26
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Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:23
  Old Post 18-02-2005 01:27 Visit Asher's homepage!
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If it's an improvement, it's a good thing.

All I want is good software.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:23
  Old Post 18-02-2005 01:30 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Meh. I highly doubt it will be better than Firefox, and I'm willing to bet it won't be standards compliant, for web designers once again to chose between MS and the W3C.

nostromo is offline nostromo
Prince
Montréal, Québec
Mar 2002
time: 00:23
  Old Post 18-02-2005 01:37
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IE will still be the number one browser, meaning it will remain the number one target for hackers.

Even though Firefox is and will probably remain my main browser, I still have to use IE once in while. For example, since I installed my Radeon, my desktop crashes everytime I use Firefox to go on 'poly. With IE, there's no problem.

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:23
  Old Post 18-02-2005 07:00 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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Got spare money?

that's because ati

though, i dislike ATi more because of their linux driver policy than anything.

nostromo is offline nostromo
Prince
Montréal, Québec
Mar 2002
time: 00:23
  Old Post 18-02-2005 07:08
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Got spare money?

The problem that causes the crashes, infinite loop problems or VPU recover errors, are not specific to ATI. Still, its a huge pain in the ass.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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May 1999
time: 13:23
  Old Post 18-02-2005 07:11
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It's highly unlikely that MS would throw out the entire IE code and start from scratch, like what the Mozilla team has done. Which means that IE 7 is still going to be an ugly kludge.

However, I must give Mr Gates a for acknowledging IE is a security risk.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:23
  Old Post 18-02-2005 08:32 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
It's highly unlikely that MS would throw out the entire IE code and start from scratch, like what the Mozilla team has done. Which means that IE 7 is still going to be an ugly kludge.

However, I must give Mr Gates a for acknowledging IE is a security risk.

Are you kidding, UR? Look at the Mozilla codebase, a lot of it is leftover from Netscape.

Just not Gecko.

Javascript, for instance, is still from 4.x. As is the plugin infrastructure.

And incase you haven't noticed, most flaws aren't in the HTML parser anyway.

As much as I like Firefox, you can't point it to be an excellent example of security. There have been more Firefox flaws as late than IE flaws, it's just that Firefox's marketshare is smaller still, and not a big target.

Elok is offline Elok
Prince
Land of Ramen Dragons
Mar 2003
time: 00:23
  Old Post 18-02-2005 09:07
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Isn't there a rather large cadre of cyber-dorks out there who make viruses for the specific purpose of thwarting and irritating Microsoft, just for spite? I know that sounds Fez-ian but it's what I've always heard, and given how rabid certain folks are against Gates it makes sense, or at least as much as anything having to do with viruses makes sense, anyway.

I just switched to Firefox. I rather like the totally free, doesn't try to take over your desktop, popup smashing, built-in googling aspects of it, and with all respect for your confidence in MS, Asher, I don't share that confidence. That wretched MS Word has lost/corrupted so many frigging files for myself and my family it's not even funny.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:23
  Old Post 18-02-2005 09:15 Visit Asher's homepage!
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It's absolutely true that most of the anti-social idiots who make viruses and worms also happen to be people who hate MS and rail on them. UR will deny this -- why, I've no idea. It's pretty frickin' obvious.

And I must be pretty special, because MS Word has never eaten a document of mine.

Though it has saved my ass due to a power outage, thanks to the document recovery feature.

ixnay is offline ixnay
ACS Staff: 'RoN' Content Editor
I <3 etna, omg disgaea fag
Jan 1970
time: 22:23
  Old Post 18-02-2005 11:04 Visit ixnay<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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I'll just be happy if it can handle .PNG images properly.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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May 1999
time: 13:23
  Old Post 18-02-2005 15:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
Javascript, for instance, is still from 4.x.


You mean the ECMA standard?

quote:
Originally posted by Asher
As is the plugin infrastructure.


What's wrong with it? A modular structure beats a monolithic structure.

quote:
Originally posted by Asher
And incase you haven't noticed, most flaws aren't in the HTML parser anyway.


The CSS support is all messed up. ALL messed up.

quote:
Originally posted by Asher
As much as I like Firefox, you can't point it to be an excellent example of security. There have been more Firefox flaws as late than IE flaws, it's just that Firefox's marketshare is smaller still, and not a big target.


Funny thing. There's no flaw in Firefox on the same level as ActiveX.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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time: 13:23
  Old Post 18-02-2005 15:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
It's absolutely true that most of the anti-social idiots who make viruses and worms also happen to be people who hate MS and rail on them. UR will deny this -- why, I've no idea. It's pretty frickin' obvious.


Microsoft software happens to be full of holes might have something to do with that.

Then there's the fact that many people loathe or even hate Microsoft for good reasons.

For example, Clarke blased Microsoft for its security track record, and he is not the first high profile person who did it. Bruce Schneier had criticised Microsoft's lack of security in its software on a number of occasions before. And these are not the same people who have to work with MS stuff day-in day-out.

quote:
Originally posted by Asher
And I must be pretty special, because MS Word has never eaten a document of mine.


Almost as special as your luck with Linux on Athlon64

Last edited by Urban Ranger on 18-02-2005 at 15:19

Ari Rahikkala is offline Ari Rahikkala
King
Unreported loss of streaming in atomic read operation
Oct 1999
time: 07:23
  Old Post 18-02-2005 16:15 Visit Ari Rahikkala's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
You mean the ECMA standard?


No, he means Spidermonkey. And in case you weren't aware of it, reusing code that works is a good thing . I mean, sure, if the people writing Mozilla had wanted their browser to become relevant in, say, 2014 they could have just thrown away all of the code that was opened up by Netscape, but they didn't so we got Firefox in 2004 instead .

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:23
  Old Post 18-02-2005 17:45 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
You mean the ECMA standard?

No, I mean the code that parses and executes Javascript in Mozilla and Firefox is legacy Netscape 4.x code. The original copyright dates are still on the CVS.

quote:
What's wrong with it? A modular structure beats a monolithic structure.



That's not my point -- my point was it was "kludged" into Mozilla and Firefox...

quote:
The CSS support is all messed up. ALL messed up.

Are you saying there are CSS security vulnerabilities?

quote:
Funny thing. There's no flaw in Firefox on the same level as ActiveX.

Yes, there is -- XPI.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:23
  Old Post 18-02-2005 17:48 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Microsoft software happens to be full of holes might have something to do with that.

Yes, because there's no holes in Linux or MacOS X...

All software platforms have holes in them. Period.

There's just little to no incentive for anti-social crackers to use any of them on other platforms. If they want the fame or publicity, they go for Windows...if they want quantity, they go for Windows...if they want access to credit card numbers, they go for Windows...

quote:
Almost as special as your luck with Linux on Athlon64

Nope, because anyone with a RAID configured with the on-board RAID would run into the same problem, due to poor support for such devices in Linux.

Ditto for anyone with a Radeon 9800Pro back when I tried to install Linux for AMD64.

Last edited by Asher on 18-02-2005 at 19:53

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:23
  Old Post 18-02-2005 19:52 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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#18 Report this post to a moderator
Put an end to popups!

Look, if we're going to bash MS, can we at least do it for something relevent to the thread, and not the old security wars/bores?

Personally, I expect the new IE to make my life as a web designer more difficult.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:23
  Old Post 18-02-2005 19:54 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Look, if we're going to bash MS, can we at least do it for something relevent to the thread, and not the old security wars/bores?

Personally, I expect the new IE to make my life as a web designer more difficult.

They have pledged more support for standards in general, if that makes you feel any better.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:23
  Old Post 18-02-2005 19:59 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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They did so in the past too. I remain skeptical until I see the finished product.

Elok is offline Elok
Prince
Land of Ramen Dragons
Mar 2003
time: 00:23
  Old Post 18-02-2005 21:04
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I don't know about special components of such-and-such which might prevent certain problems. All I know is, my mother has to use Word as part of a consulting project she's working on, and she's lost files at least five times. She never lost one with WordPerfect, and they both have the same "save" menu, it's not like she should need special skills or anything. It's gotten to the point where she has to back everything up twice to make sure it's still there the next time she works on it.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:23
  Old Post 18-02-2005 21:09 Visit Asher's homepage!
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I don't understand how you "lose" files.

pchang is offline pchang
King
Cupertino?
Aug 1999
time: 05:23
  Old Post 18-02-2005 21:15
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Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

My question is
Will IE7 have a different user agent string than IE6?

What I really want is for ALL user agent strings to contain build number info.

Elok is offline Elok
Prince
Land of Ramen Dragons
Mar 2003
time: 00:23
  Old Post 18-02-2005 22:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
I don't understand how you "lose" files.


Neither do we, that's the problem. We save, double-check where we saved it, and come back later to find the file has vanished or been badly saved to a corrupted form somehow. It only happens with Word. We scan our PC for viruses at decent intervals, and even if it were a virus it would seem to be a virus that can't attack WordPerfect, only Word.

Mercator is offline Mercator
King
Sorekara no Nanimo
Jan 1970
time: 06:23
  Old Post 19-02-2005 04:19 Visit Mercator's homepage!
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Judging from that article it will mostly be a security update and we won't be seeing any improvements in standards compliance. After all, IE has such a large user base, they need to be backwards compatible unless they want to break half the world's websites and confuse all Windows users who don't know or care about standards and just want pretty pictures.

The improved security features will only mean more users will stick with IE and not switch to Firefox. So designing web pages will remain as difficult as ever.

And since I don't have Windows XP anyway, this will probably have zero effect for me.

I can only hope they add full PNG support, support the application/xhtml+xml MIME type and improve IE's standards-compliant mode a bit.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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time: 13:23
  Old Post 19-02-2005 11:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Mercator
After all, IE has such a large user base, they need to be backwards compatible unless they want to break half the world's websites


Their problem

Not that SP2 doen't break applications.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:23
  Old Post 19-02-2005 13:27 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Their problem

Not that SP2 doen't break applications.

The reason SP2 took so long to come out and so much effort was because of a huge effort on their part to ensure applications don't break.

You'll likely never see that kind of attitude in the Linux world...

Or even MacOS world.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:23
  Old Post 19-02-2005 13:33
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Hasn't the Longhorn beta been delayed again?

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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time: 13:23
  Old Post 19-02-2005 13:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
You'll likely never see that kind of attitude in the Linux world...


OTOH, I haven't seen any Linux kernel patch that breaks applications.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:23
  Old Post 19-02-2005 13:41
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quote:
Or even MacOS world.


Really? None of my apps have broken due to updates. There were a few ones that didn't make the transition from OS 9 to the Classic Shell, but none I ever used.

 
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