18-02-2005 06:40									#1
	How Does one go "Leader Farming"? Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I've been hearing the term leader farming being used in some of the forums. I'm wondering how you go about doing that as having many leaders would be very helpful in my current civilization game. Thank you

	18-02-2005 07:10									#2
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Creating and Using Leaders by Sir Pleb.

	20-02-2005 02:47									#3
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Yes that is a very through article.

Summary:

1. Don't attack barbs with Elite no-star units
2. Don't attack with Elites no-star unless you have high confidence of them winning. (Use Vets and others instead)
3. Ensure you don't have a MGL/SGL when you are attacking with elites.
4. Get the HE built ASAP (requires Victorious Army)
5. Avoid upgrading Elite no-star; while conversely upgrade Elite-star ASAP
6. Avoid placing anything into an army that has an upgrade path (except for the first to allow HE to be built)

	20-02-2005 20:52									#4
	Inflate your Upload Space

nb. that thread predates the release of conquests so..
although we've re-hashed most of this about a squillion times recently, i might as well be the one to point out that

a) forget about rushing great wonders - it kain't be done no more

b) forget about rushing forbidden palace - ain't worth doin no more

c) get the epic built - about the only thing you can still do with a leader is build armies so you might as well get on with it and maximise your chances

and yes, i'm still sulking about that one!

to put it simply, any conflict must have a purpose
eg. resource acquisition, resource denial, territory acquisition, tech extortion, unadulterated blood-lust, etc

leader farming is simply a way of saying that *one of* the purposes of a given conflict is to buy yourself some leaders

decide for yourself the best way to do this, depending on the situation

personally, i like to find a nice, strong neighbour and give them a good poke with the cattle prod. then i sit back and wait for the counter-attack.
keep your elite attackers well defended so they can sortie out after easy targets. also, i can't stand hanging around waiting for the artillery to catch up, but they can be very useful in this context.

leader generation is random so you could be in for some long wars. take steps to reduce war weariness. this may include
- selecting a low ww government type, at least while you are still on the farm
- get to them before they get to you. ww increases whenever your defensive troops are attacked, so try to take their units out before they get the chance to hit you
it is quite possible to fight a long war without incurring major ww effects. i'm no expert at this, but give it a go

oscillating war can be a handy tactic for increasing your opportunities.
i find that on a standard, grog-level map, my neighbours are pushing up daisies before i have the chance to get many leaders. don't try to go in for the kill. just bruise them a bit and find another target.

leader farming used to be an overwhelming way to beat the ai in vanilla. these days, it is much less significant because the only thing you can do with all those leaders is use them to build extra armies.
and what sane person really wants that?

banana wielderers need not apply -- (i did say 'sane' after all)

	20-02-2005 23:34									#5
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

b) I must dissent. I used a mgl to build the FP and and it has helped greatly in corruption reduction. I have it about half a continent away from capitol in an old english suburb . the whole of the former english empire is able to produce larger units, ect..

Having a load of armies is fine. My early armies full of longbowmen and medival infantry hold their own nicely, plus they are good for quelling resistance.

imho

	21-02-2005 00:35									#6
	Got spare money?

gotta save?

'fraid i don't see how a distant fp would work, unless maybe your homeland only has
number of cities = ocn/2
and you have no other intermediate cities

in other words, the cities which most benefit from the fp are those with
ocn/2 < city rank < ocn

normally, anything half a continent away won't see much benefit.

or maybe god just smiles on you for beating up on the poms

	21-02-2005 01:12									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

What form of governemnt is Cous? I would not expect a huge boost in your scenario from an FP in a distance area.

Did you switch to Commie about that time?

	21-02-2005 02:41									#8
	Got spare money?

An enemy core taken over (not razed and rebuilt) would benefit somewhat, especially if conquered early. Or was the game pre-C3C?

	22-02-2005 04:17									#9
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by lebensraum personally, i like to find a nice, strong neighbour and give them a good poke with the cattle prod. then i sit back and wait for the counter-attack. keep your elite attackers well defended so they can sortie out after easy targets. also, i can't stand hanging around waiting for the artillery to catch up, but they can be very useful in this context.

My favorite way too... take a look at this thread for AU 506, about 2/3 down the second page, the post that starts "Back to France":

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...78&pagenumber=2

Prior to the construction of my two new towns in previously French territory, Ibabanago was a *perfect* spot to sortie out from for MGL-farming, up until French Light Cavs started showing up. I had 2 Muskets and a LB on the mountain, so it didn't get attacked, and the rubble from a previously razed city blocked direct access to the hill. So, the French depleted all of their Knights, Crusaders, MedInfs, and Longbows, and I scored two MGLs in the bargain.

	22-02-2005 11:55									#10
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Yes, I have save.
Gov: republic
Civ 3 complete (conquests launch)
Level: Monarchy

I just got done doing a massive police station build, but you could scrap them and see the corruption in still not too bad without them.

I know I am gonna hear "you didn't/need to/should have" built THAT in XxXxXx. But I have always been a build it all kinda ruler.

How would I get the save to you? I really would like some input on the game anyway. First time playing. Some things I would have done a little differently in retrospect, but all in all am pleased with my empire so far.

If emailing you the save direct is easiest, request it from
zippyriver@yahoo.com

	22-02-2005 21:20									#11
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Use the post reply button and then enter a few lines. Below the window you will see another button for browse.

Select this and browse to the location of your save and it will be linked here.

The only gotcha is it must be under 500K, filetype is limited, but sav is valid. So if you have a non autosave, it should work. Maps of huge size can get too large, but most std maps are fine.

	22-02-2005 21:27									#12
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yes, "leader farming" a time honored method of improving your military. Now if the AI would only employe such tactics as well.

I hate to keep harping on the bad AI, but it really has been bugging me recently.

	23-02-2005 01:44									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

A: True

B: False. (Only True in Conquests 1.0 unpatched). But don't pick a city thats in the middle of max corrupt cities for the FP even with MGL.

C: True, to do this you need a victorious army, which in turn requires a MGL. (Or with AU Mod, Military Tradition tech then Military Academy, then wait 25 turns for an army)

And yes, the more you fight the more likely you are to get MGL. I hit a personal record of MGL in the latest DAR.
8 MGLs in a single game.

FP, Army, Heoric Epic, Army, Army, Pentagon, Army, Army.

First Army : Horsemen. Rest of Armies: Knights

quote: Originally posted by lebensraum nb. that thread predates the release of conquests so.. although we've re-hashed most of this about a squillion times recently, i might as well be the one to point out that a) forget about rushing great wonders - it kain't be done no more b) forget about rushing forbidden palace - ain't worth doin no more c) get the epic built - about the only thing you can still do with a leader is build armies so you might as well get on with it and maximise your chances and yes, i'm still sulking about that one! to put it simply, any conflict must have a purpose eg. resource acquisition, resource denial, territory acquisition, tech extortion, unadulterated blood-lust, etc leader farming is simply a way of saying that *one of* the purposes of a given conflict is to buy yourself some leaders decide for yourself the best way to do this, depending on the situation personally, i like to find a nice, strong neighbour and give them a good poke with the cattle prod. then i sit back and wait for the counter-attack. keep your elite attackers well defended so they can sortie out after easy targets. also, i can't stand hanging around waiting for the artillery to catch up, but they can be very useful in this context. leader generation is random so you could be in for some long wars. take steps to reduce war weariness. this may include - selecting a low ww government type, at least while you are still on the farm - get to them before they get to you. ww increases whenever your defensive troops are attacked, so try to take their units out before they get the chance to hit you it is quite possible to fight a long war without incurring major ww effects. i'm no expert at this, but give it a go oscillating war can be a handy tactic for increasing your opportunities. i find that on a standard, grog-level map, my neighbours are pushing up daisies before i have the chance to get many leaders. don't try to go in for the kill. just bruise them a bit and find another target. leader farming used to be an overwhelming way to beat the ai in vanilla. these days, it is much less significant because the only thing you can do with all those leaders is use them to build extra armies. and what sane person really wants that? banana wielderers need not apply -- (i did say 'sane' after all)

	23-02-2005 01:52									#14
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

In Conquests 1.22 the FP under a non-commie govt:

1. Massively reduces corruption in the FP city itself. (Max corruption -= 70) In the location I chose at the time, it's CN was initally low enough that it had even lower corruption, but I evenually conquered and built some closer cities that boosted it's CN enough where it benifited from a CH as well. Even at end of game though it was a fairly good choice, the surronding cities with CH were only 40 - 50% corrupt.

2. Increases the effective OCN number across the board. This benifits every city, even the capital itself if your Representive, in a Golden Age and have sufficent tax/science multipliers.

3. Reduces distance based corruption.

If building it normally and you got a free settler I'd generally sugest the city you built with the free settler. The speed it can be built there will make up for some other sites being more mathematicly perfect. With a MGL build anywhere that's not surrounded by max corruption cities, preferably as soon as possible both for the FP benifit and also to free the MGL so you can get a new one.

	23-02-2005 15:58									#15
	Support Apolyton

Hope this works.

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=1489_First.SAV

	25-02-2005 13:33									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

AAARRGGh !!!
one month of scrounging parts, swapping bits in & out with three different machines and four different operating systems. i finally came up with one workable configuration.
At Last !!
then i tried installing civ... and ..
..windows cannot read from the specified drive
tried every trick i can think of, but the b. thing just will not install



my apologies all 'round, AGAIN! but it seems i won't be looking at saves any time soon

ps. at first, i had soo many crazy things screwing up on me, i thought i must have picked up some sort of weird and vindictive supernatural virus. at this stage though i really doubt it .. no ghost would ever be this b. persistent

	25-02-2005 13:41									#17
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Theseus So, the French depleted all of their Knights, Crusaders, MedInfs, and Longbows, and I scored two MGLs in the bargain.

poor poor joanie

why can't you boys just play nice ..