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Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:23
Arrow  Old Post 19-02-2005 04:52
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Big Class Action Filed Against Apple! Increase Your PM Length

http://www.forbes.com/home/personal..._0218apple.html

quote:
Just before a bill to curb class-action lawsuits headed to President Bush for signing, Apple Computer was targeted in a class action.

The lawsuit, which the new law won't affect, was filed Thursday in California Superior Court in San Francisco on behalf of consumers and resellers of Apple (nasdaq: AAPL - news - people ) products. It seeks to include in the consumer class any person in the U.S. who purchased Apple products or repair services since Jan. 1, 1995, except for someone affiliated with Apple or the lawsuit.

The plaintiffs allege that Apple failed to fully honor service contracts and warranties, didn't get repair and service businesses properly licensed, stole trade secrets from its own resellers, and sold used computer equipment as new.

They are charging Apple with Unlawful Business Practices, Misappropriation of Trade Secrets, Breach of Contract, and violations of the Consumers Legal Remedies Act and the Song Beverly [Consumer Warranty] Act.

Apple could not be immediately reached for comment on the lawsuit.

The legal team handling the case includes two lawyers, J. David Franklin and Alexander Schack, who in the early 90s represented consumers and dealers in lawsuits against wireless service providers. Schack says those suits have similarities to this case against Apple, and most of those suits were settled.

The lawyers are also already representing several aggrieved current and former Apple-authorized resellers who have sued the company in separate actions.

In one complaint, longtime Apple dealer Elite Computers & Software contends that Apple sold product in its in-house retail stores at a net loss--an 8% net loss in 2002, Elite figures--eliminating the "level playing field" Apple had promised would exist between independent resellers and Apple's own stores. Apple stores debuted in 2001. Apple's website lists 102 Apple-owned stores, 98 of them in the U.S.

"When no-one else would look at Apple, we were there," says Elite founder Thomas Armes. "We were once Apple specialists and now we're legal specialists... We are welcoming any other interested parties that would like to discuss or possibly join our group." Armes runs the website www.tellonapple.org. He says his business had $20 million in sales in 2002 but that he has had to close all five of his stores.

Other resellers are also going out of business, including Tom Santos, who shuttered his store, MACadam, in January after 16 years. Neighborhood Computer Store's Andrew Gold, who says he has sold Apple products for 25 years (Apple was incorporated in 1977), says his sales are off 80% since Apple opened its first store. "My days are pretty numbered," he says. Gold remains an authorized Apple dealer. Santos and Gold are also suing Apple.

Meanwhile Apple sales have soared along with its stock, which has quadrupled in a year to $87.81 at yesterday's close. Apple, which makes the popular iPod music player, earned $276 million on sales of $8.3 billion last year.


Well, at least they got in before the new law limiting class actions was passed. This stuff looks pretty bad for Apple. Especially if the claims that they refused to honor service contracts and warrenties is true. That could be a BIG hit to their PR.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:23
  Old Post 19-02-2005 05:09
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Tired of ads?

Do you think Apple will lose even more professional markets with this?

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:23
  Old Post 19-02-2005 06:10
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Got spare money?

It doesn't have any of the professional market. It survives on hippies and university students but I repeat myself.

Last edited by Oerdin on 19-02-2005 at 13:50

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:23
  Old Post 19-02-2005 07:12 Visit Asher's homepage!
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#4 Report this post to a moderator
Put an end to popups!

It only takes a few bad Apples...

Anecdotal evidence I have through my job and through my friends with Apple support has been awful as well.

I also like how you get *1* free phone call with your iPod...interestingly, not unlike jail...

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:23
  Old Post 19-02-2005 07:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin
It doesn't have any of the professional market. I survives on hippies and universities but I repeat myself.

Over here at least, Apple is quite present among journalists and designers.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:23
  Old Post 19-02-2005 09:20 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Like he said, hippies.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:23
  Old Post 19-02-2005 11:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
It only takes a few bad Apples...

Anecdotal evidence I have through my job and through my friends with Apple support has been awful as well.

I also like how you get *1* free phone call with your iPod...interestingly, not unlike jail...


Anecdotal evidence I got through friends as well that Mac support ain't that great.

I wonder if this case will have a halting effect on the good times at Apple currently.

Btw, this is also why I got my iPod+hp, so I get HP support, not Apple's.

The Mad Monk is offline The Mad Monk
Emperor
of Ice Cream
Mar 2000
time: 23:23
  Old Post 19-02-2005 11:53
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I thought HP was in trouble as well?

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:23
  Old Post 19-02-2005 13:29
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Suffering from ads?

quote:
Anecdotal evidence I got through friends as well that Mac support ain't that great.


That's nonsense. They are pretty good and consistently get voted the best. This reminds me of the ipod battery nonsense.

What this is really about is Apple's retail stores. They have been spectacularly successful and have forced some independent resellers out of existence. These people are pissed, and not without cause - many of them have supported Apple and sold its products for over 20 years.

All Apple's stores do free, walk-in support, which is better than I can say for other computer retailers.

Having said that, they haven't been good enough. Of the local mac resellers here, only two are really good. Far too often the people selling them have no idea.

Apple is opening a store in Toronto, but I'll still go to CPUsed for two reasons. It's a couple of blocks from my apartment, and the people there are really nice and knowledgeable.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:23
  Old Post 20-02-2005 17:18
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quote:
All Apple's stores do free, walk-in support, which is better than I can say for other computer retailers.


The Apple Store in Shinsaibashi is really good about it. My friend's taken his laptop there a couple times and has nothing but good things to say about the service. Then again, this is Japan, so that might skew the quality of service a little bit...

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:23
  Old Post 21-02-2005 03:24
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote:
The Apple Store in Shinsaibashi is really good about it. My friend's taken his laptop there a couple times and has nothing but good things to say about the service. Then again, this is Japan, so that might skew the quality of service a little bit...


From what I've read it's the same in N. America. The only problem is that the "genius" bars get so overwhelmed that some stores are having to book appointments.

Working in the stores in the LA area is supposed to be cool. You get to help movie stars with their powerbook problems and get to see all their pr0n.

nostromo is offline nostromo
Prince
Montréal, Québec
Mar 2002
time: 00:23
  Old Post 21-02-2005 03:40
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Anecdotal evidence is... well... anecdotal. A friend of mine had a problem with his Dell laptop: the touchpad didn't work properly. He called Dell. Their answer? Sorry, we can't help you. Crap service! But is that representative of Dell service? It seems not: it seems that Dell clients are satisfied, overall, with Dell's service. Except the outsourcing fiasco, when Indians who barely spoke english answered the phone... Of course, my friend won't buy Dell, ever again. The next one will be a Toshiba, or so he told me. Can't argue with that.

Last edited by nostromo on 21-02-2005 at 03:45

asleepathewheel is offline asleepathewheel
Emperor
listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:23
  Old Post 21-02-2005 04:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
Working in the stores in the LA area is supposed to be cool. You get to help movie stars with their powerbook problems and get to see all their pr0n.


My sister's boyfriend worked in an LA Apple store, and now in a SoHo branch, and he would concur.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:23
  Old Post 21-02-2005 05:09
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Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote:
Anecdotal evidence is... well... anecdotal.


Yep. Both Apple and Dell tend to score well in surveys about customer service.

Zkribbler is offline Zkribbler
King
Los Angeles, CA, USA
Feb 1999
time: 21:23
  Old Post 21-02-2005 07:39
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quote:
Originally posted by nostromo
The next one will be a Toshiba, or so he told me. Can't argue with that.


Toshiba has been recommended to me by the computer techs where I work.

BTW: I hate class action law suits. I can predict right now what this case will settle for:

Apple will agree to pay plaintiff's legal fees, which will be somewhere in seven figures. The class members will get coupons giving them a discount on the next Apple products they purchase.

You heard it here first.

nostromo is offline nostromo
Prince
Montréal, Québec
Mar 2002
time: 00:23
  Old Post 21-02-2005 07:44
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quote:
Toshiba has been recommended to me by the computer techs where I work.


Mine is 5 years old. Never had a problem with it. But that's just anecdotal evidence.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:23
  Old Post 21-02-2005 09:45 Visit Asher's homepage!
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#17 Report this post to a moderator
Suffering from ads?

It's been my experience that Dell support representatives understand basic grammar, while Apple support representatives need some remedial high school English courses.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:23
  Old Post 21-02-2005 09:47
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It's been my experience that Apple support representatives not only speak basic English, but also perfect Japanese. Amazing!

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:23
  Old Post 21-02-2005 12:32
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quote:
Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

It's been my experience that Dell support representatives understand basic grammar, while Apple support representatives need some remedial high school English courses.




its been my experience that Dell has outsourced their customer services to India, and their representatives 1) lie about where they are from (oh ya, i live in bay area 20 year!) and 2) no speaky ingles.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:23
  Old Post 21-02-2005 14:36
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quote:
It's been my experience that Dell support representatives understand basic grammar, while Apple support representatives need some remedial high school English courses.


It's not them. They just can't understand people who say "aboot" all the time.

Neither can I.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:23
  Old Post 21-02-2005 19:06 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
It's not them. They just can't understand people who say "aboot" all the time.

Neither can I.

Neither can I.

The only reason people could tell I was Canadian when I lived in California was I said "foul" as a two-syllable word, while they said it as one.

Zkribbler is offline Zkribbler
King
Los Angeles, CA, USA
Feb 1999
time: 21:23
  Old Post 21-02-2005 22:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
The only reason people could tell I was Canadian when I lived in California was I said "foul" as a two-syllable word, while they said it as one.


Well that, and the fact you kept complaining about the lack of seasons.

Asher: What ever happened to winter?!
Californian: This is winter.
Asher: It's 65 friggin' degrees! How can this be winter??
Californian: Huh?? 65 degrees is winter.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:23
  Old Post 22-02-2005 05:21
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Inflate your Upload Space

There's no seasons in Canada either. They just trade California's perpetual summer for a perpetual winter...

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:23
  Old Post 22-02-2005 07:15
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when they come to california, they're always wondering what this single season is all aboot, eh?

quote:
The only reason people could tell I was Canadian


thats what YOU think

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