21-02-2005 04:18									#91
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Hitler was the embodiment of good old fashioned European superstition and bigotry transplanted into the 20th century. His death and dsigrace was the last gasp of the essetial spirit of the old order. Litterally he had to die for the sins of Europe's past.

	21-02-2005 04:19									#92
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and 50 millions with him. so true, that just had to happen so all the old bigotry could die out... too bad you can still find it, if less strongly than many outsiders would claim anyway

	21-02-2005 04:59									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion would that have been good? when this country was remembering the July 20 '44 assassination, I came across another interesting thought: if Hitler had died in that attempt, he would have become a martyr and people would still say we could have won the war had he survived. how good would it be for Germany and the rest of the world if the territorial gains in the east would still be ours (there would still be war with France and the UK, mind), and the person who at the same time had Jews and political opponents put in concentration camps would have dies at the height of his fame?

But Hitler did die! It was just kept secret, and a man resembling Him was used to hide his absence.
That's why Germany's lost the war!

	21-02-2005 05:02									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Heresson But Hitler did die! It was just kept secret, and a man resembling Him was used to hide his absence. That's why Germany's lost the war!

Why did you capitalize "him" when referring to Hitler? Is he some sort of deity to you? I can't wait to tell your Polish buddies. I predict a short life span for you.

	21-02-2005 05:02									#95
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I really don't think ANYone in that government would have kept up that stupid way of leadership. apart from Goebbels who would have kept absolutely no power without Hitler.

	21-02-2005 05:23									#96
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Why did you capitalize "him" when referring to Hitler? Is he some sort of deity to you? I can't wait to tell your Polish buddies. I predict a short life span for you.

If You haven't noticed, I capitalise every "He", "Him", "You" etc

	21-02-2005 05:27									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Heresson If You haven't noticed, I capitalise every "He", "Him", "You" etc

You worship everybody? Good heavens man! You need an emergerncy course in self esteem!

	21-02-2005 05:31									#98
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maybe he's just a sucker wiiith no self esteem oh hey yeah....

	21-02-2005 05:36									#99
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Hey! hey!

	21-02-2005 05:58									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Shogun Gunner quote: That is another historically impossible scenario. Japan would attack the US, that's just a question of when. Can't disagree with that.

I can...

	21-02-2005 06:02									#101
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me too

welcome to 3-digit-land

	21-02-2005 08:01									#102
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hitler didn't die for anyones sins. He was just your average politically zealous bozo with half baked 'ideals,' who by some chance of history actually ofund himself in charge.

People like hitler are 2 a dozen at uni's and stuff, with extreme views and so on, imagine if any of them took over


The battle of britain was key, as it meant that there would be a stalemate between germany/UK (Germany would never have the air power to invade).

Also, the submarine warfare was important, i htink churchill said it almost bought UK to its knees....

	21-02-2005 08:25									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Trip You can order it from Paradox's E-Butik now if you want the game.

PC Lamer gave it a 91%. Damn!

	21-02-2005 08:39									#104
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You still believe those game reviews?

	21-02-2005 08:46									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten I can...

Are you saying that Japanese military and foreign policy wasn't taking Japan into direct conflict with the United States?

	21-02-2005 09:01									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger You still believe those game reviews?

From PC Lamer? No. Computer Games has generally been my best guide, since they actually wait to review a game until they have a finished product, and they don't do previews, so they don't get all hyped before hand. Computer Gaming World isn't bad.

	21-02-2005 09:02									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Shogun Gunner Are you saying that Japanese military and foreign policy wasn't taking Japan into direct conflict with the United States?

The U.S. was ****-blocking Japan. If we hadn't slapped an embargo on them, they wouldn't have felt the need to go to war with us. They deserved an embargo, so I'm not saying we were wrong.

	21-02-2005 09:05									#108
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exactly, which led us into direct conflict. Japan was ultra-nationalistic and had some of the same hallmarks as the nazis (thinking they were a superior race, death camps, unrestricted warfare to seize land/resources)

I don't see a scenario where the US avoids conflict with Japan

	21-02-2005 09:05									#109
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Once the US placed an embargo on the shipment of American oil to Japan the Japanese really had no choice. The imperial government knew quite well that Japan's economy and war effort would come to a screeching halt by 1943 without some source of oil. Their only alternative was to seize the oil fields of the Dutch East Indies, but in order to do that they would have to sail right past American occupied Phillipines. The Japanese military realised that to do so would give the US a choke hold on strategic Japanese supplies. All the US would have to do to once again cut Japan's oil supply would be to deploy their legendary B-17s against the tanker routes from the East Indies.

	21-02-2005 09:23									#110
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quote: Are you saying that Japanese military and foreign policy wasn't taking Japan into direct conflict with the United States?

I'm saying that the course Japan took wasn't inevitable. There was a major policy disagreement between the IJA and the IJN during the 30's that would have changed history greatly had its outcome been different. If the Army had had its way, Japan might have been attacking the Russians from the east while the Germans attacked from the west...

quote: The U.S. was ****-blocking Japan. If we hadn't slapped an embargo on them, they wouldn't have felt the need to go to war with us. They deserved an embargo, so I'm not saying we were wrong.

That too. The Japanese never really wanted a war with the U.S. but the oil embargo and the threat of American interference in any push for control of the oil reserves in the Dutch East Indies gave them little choice.

	21-02-2005 09:30									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten If the Army had had its way, Japan might have been attacking the Russians from the east while the Germans attacked from the west...

The IJA tried twice, and got stomped twice.

quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten That too. The Japanese never really wanted a war with the U.S. but the oil embargo and the threat of American interference in any push for control of the oil reserves in the Dutch East Indies gave them little choice.

That probably had something to do with Japan's continual invasion of neighbouring countries.

	21-02-2005 10:58									#112
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Yeah, Japan simply could not take on a heavily industrialized country with triple their population and unrestricted access to war resources. Whether the US or USSR they get their butts kicked.

quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Hitler was the embodiment of good old fashioned European superstition and bigotry transplanted into the 20th century. His death and dsigrace was the last gasp of the essetial spirit of the old order. Litterally he had to die for the sins of Europe's past.

Then how come the bigotry is still there, with both antisemitism and neonazism on the rise?

	21-02-2005 11:40									#113
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quote: Yeah, Japan simply could not take on a heavily industrialized country with triple their population and unrestricted access to war resources. Whether the US or USSR they get their butts kicked.

I really doubt the USSR could've put up much of a fight in the Russian Far East at the time of Pearl Harbor.

	21-02-2005 12:02									#114
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: Yeah, Japan simply could not take on a heavily industrialized country with triple their population and unrestricted access to war resources. Whether the US or USSR they get their butts kicked. I really doubt the USSR could've put up much of a fight in the Russian Far East at the time of Pearl Harbor.

In fact, it was the Richard Sorge spy ring that alerted Stalin to the planned Japanese attack on the US and Britain, allowing him to transfer the very powerful Siberian units to lead the December counter-attack which saved Moscow.

	21-02-2005 12:07									#115
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So what happens to Moscow if those Siberian units are tied up fighting the Japanese? This isn't rocket science...

	21-02-2005 12:18									#116
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Moscow falls, I guess. So?

	21-02-2005 12:21									#117
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten So what happens to Moscow if those Siberian units are tied up fighting the Japanese? This isn't rocket science...

You get a lot of dead IJA soldiers. They were just woefully unequipped for a Siberian winter.

	21-02-2005 12:24									#118
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quote: Moscow falls, I guess. So?

Do you really think the Japanese would "get their butts kicked" by a country whose capital had just fallen to the Nazis? The Russians could've held off a Japanese attack with Zhukov and his Siberian troops, but they probably would've lost the war because of it...

	21-02-2005 12:29									#119
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Pure speculation.

	21-02-2005 12:44									#120
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Isn't this whole thread pure speculation?