22-02-2005 01:08									#1
	Working for CSIS/CIA/NSA Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I was browsing the job-postings on my University's job database, because I like to keep an eye on the kind of jobs that'll be out there for me when I graduate.

One that caught my eye was a job for the CSIS (Canadian Security Intelligence Service) in Ottawa, as a suitably vague "Computer Scientist".

I've always sworn off ever working in the public sector. But this one seems interesting.

It's almost like being a spy, except perhaps a geeky version. I'm not even sure what they really do.

It's the James Bond in me wanting to be involved with it, but I'm betting the salary is **** compared to the private sector.

Would you ever work for your government's spy agency?

	22-02-2005 01:16									#2
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CSIS? Are you incompetent enough? Maybe you should warm up with the Mounties first?

	22-02-2005 01:17									#3
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Probably data base management or something boring like that.

	22-02-2005 01:18									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Probably data base management or somethen boring like that.

I'm a software engineer by trade and by heart. I'd definitely turn that down.

Though if they wanted developers to make software for data mining, that'd be interesting.

	22-02-2005 01:19									#5
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Public sector salaries aren't that bad, but it's the pension that's the real benefit. Of course, as always, YMMV.

They'd have to make me an offer I couldn't refuse before I'd switch from my current job to something like the NSA or CIA or whatever -- my understanding of the situation is that it's a lot more difficult to remain shielded from the politics in the NSA/CIA than in the DOD.

	22-02-2005 01:21									#6
	Re: Working for CSIS/CIA/NSA Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Asher It's the James Bond in me wanting to be involved with it, but I'm betting the salary is **** compared to the private sector.

This is true, according to my wife's college friend who works for CSIS.

I'd never work for the gov't - then I'd feel that I couldn't complain about them.

	22-02-2005 01:22									#7
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That's the big problem with the public sector. Advancement often has more to do with politics then with skill or competency.

	22-02-2005 01:38									#8
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http://www.csis-scrs.gc.ca/eng/employ/employmenu_e.html

They have current job postings including salaries.

	22-02-2005 01:55									#9
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Most computer programmer jobs in those agencies involves rather boring work. You have to make sure the job is in the "operations" side in order for it to be interesting.

	22-02-2005 02:47									#10
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CSIS had a job ad on UVic's Co-op site a couple years ago. They didn't say what is was, but one of the necessary skills was knowledge of encryption. I so would have applied, but it was for 3rd year and up, and they would brook no argument on the matter.

SP

	22-02-2005 04:27									#11
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I´m sure the Iranian Space Agency would love to hire a top notch computer guy such as yourself. I´m sure they´ll pay you more than CSIS as well...

	22-02-2005 05:38									#12
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Unless you're interested in mind-numbing mediocrity and stagnating bureaucracy, avoid CSIS like the plague. NSA and CIA have other problems but are a better choice. The RCMP SS were ****pots but they were good for a laugh. Imagine guys with jackets and ties, crewcuts, and handlebar mustaches "blending in" in the 70's. Believe me, I know wherof I speak. It still makes me laugh

	22-02-2005 05:42									#13
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quote: then I'd feel that I couldn't complain about them.

If there is anything this place proves it is that you can ***** about anything, anytime, for whatever reason, and even if people are not listening to you.

	22-02-2005 05:46									#14
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I don't think the NSA/CIA would allow dual citizens as members, or they'd at least make you become US-only.

	22-02-2005 05:50									#15
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Not nessecarily. Remember that Canada and the US have one of the most integrated Military and Intelligence infrustructures in the world. I would no assume you have no place there, though I am sure the more interesting and secure stuff is beyond your reach.

Your biggest hitch would be security level. Foreign nationals can join our military, but can't do anything that requires a security clearance.

	22-02-2005 05:53									#16
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Yeah, it'd be impossible as a dual citizen to do anything interesting.

At work we frequently get customers at places like the LLNL in the US, where they sometimes work on classified code. Only US citizens (no dual citizens) are allowed to work on debugging our products with their code, and that's only after an extensive security clearance.

I'm the closest thing our team has to an American, and it's not close enough. We need to send an OS developer from Austin, TX who used to work on compilers to California, and literally debug it with him over the phone.

	22-02-2005 06:28									#17
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I don't think it's possible for a non-US citizen (including dual citizens) to get a secret clearance (barring outstanding circumstances, of which "being a dual citizen of Canada and the US" might qualify, hellifIknow), let alone a TS clearance, and pretty much anything that any of the intelligence agencies does is rated TS. I think that outstanding circumstances could justify a secret clearance, but they're pretty hard core with the TS screening process. (I dunno if the screening process for compartmental shizznit is more strict, but if so then you'd be even more fizzucked, since crypto gets its own compartment.)

	22-02-2005 08:56									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Would you ever work for your government's spy agency?

I was offered a shot at an FBI job. I turned it down.

	22-02-2005 10:37									#19
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CSIS? What does Canada need an intelligence service for?

Do you spend spies south to try and snoop out the latest new fashion trends before they hit the streets?

	22-02-2005 10:39									#20
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All they do now is apprehend/monitor random muslims as per US orders.

	22-02-2005 11:53									#21
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Someone has to keep track of the beaver?

But seriously... the cells in Britain that were planning on blowing up a football match or two were exposed to the Brits by CSIS and the RCMP because of their surveillance of a guy in Ottawa.

The guy who wanted to blow up LAX was also tipped to US authorities, wasn't he?

Then there's always Chinese 'trade missions' aka industrial espionage rings to keep track of.

	22-02-2005 15:57									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos Not nessecarily. Remember that Canada and the US have one of the most integrated Military and Intelligence infrustructures in the world. I would no assume you have no place there, though I am sure the more interesting and secure stuff is beyond your reach. Your biggest hitch would be security level. Foreign nationals can join our military, but can't do anything that requires a security clearance.

Actually I worked with a Brit who was in the US Army at an NSA shop in the 1980s, so it was possible at least then. The U.S. shares intel at the highest levels with the Brits, Canadians and Australians so it might be possible.

	22-02-2005 18:12									#23
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I think you should see what tickles your fancy - intelligence work, i imagine, offers alot of challenges - but it obviously depends on your field of expertese. Obviously if you're a database programmer, you'll sit in an office programming databases...

But there is much work beyond that.

Israel's high tech industry is very much boosted by people who worked in the more technical parts of MI and computer scientists that come from intelligence are considered some of the best and most experienced - since the tasks are often 'impossible' and the time strain and other practical limitations are very big.

This means tiring work - but it is satisfying when you 'save lives' or help your country. And it also teaches you to work and think in unusual ways.

	23-02-2005 05:44									#24
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get experience, become consultant..then consult to govt.