23-02-2005 02:20									#31
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No Banana Republic?

	23-02-2005 02:25									#32
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You don't need to ask DanS - it's not even close.

Look up comparative GDP's. Start adding up western European countries. You'll notice you can stop after the big four.

	23-02-2005 02:25									#33
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I refuse to vote in this poll for two reasons:

1) No banana option.

2) No Denmark option.

Asmodean

	23-02-2005 02:26									#34
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UK. China will be, soon, but potential power doesn't mean it has much influence now. Economically it's huge, but has little effect outside it's borders, and politically/diplomatically it lags behind the other four other UNSC nations.

	23-02-2005 03:04									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Great Britain being #1 on that list, right? Otherwise, Canada has to drop farther.

I won't threadjack, make another thread on it. British comedy sucks (with a few notable exceptions)

	23-02-2005 03:16									#36
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how so?

They actually have aircraft carriers. China does not.

China cannot project their power accross a narrow strip of water, Great Britain can.

I voted for China, but that's mostly for economic reasons. China could not take on Great Britain on neutral battleground.

	23-02-2005 03:19									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident how so? They actually have aircraft carriers. China does not.

There are many who say that Britain *is* an aircraft carrier.

	23-02-2005 03:23									#38
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Why do so many people overestimate the strength of China and underestimate that of the UK?

	23-02-2005 03:25									#39
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Simply, probably because the UK is dwarfed by being directly compared to the US, and China is a relative unknown, and people fear the unknown.

	23-02-2005 03:26									#40
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Finland!

	23-02-2005 03:29									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Kontiki Why do so many people overestimate the strength of China and underestimate that of the UK?

Its probably a sheer manpower thing when one country has the potential (even if it does not have the current ability) to field an army as large as the population of its rival.


If we are talking ability to PROJECT military power its probably the UK--

Diplomatic influence -- I'm not sure-- UK probably has a moderate level of influence around the world while I see the Chinese more as having a amssive amount of influence in their immediate region
Current and potential economic might -- China

	23-02-2005 03:41									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Kontiki Why do so many people overestimate the strength of China and underestimate that of the UK?

Because their wish for an 'alternative' power to arise is so strong they've actually managed to convince themselves that this is the way it already is.

It's the 'progressive' way of looking at things these days.

	23-02-2005 03:45									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident ...British comedy sucks (with a few notable exceptions)

Says the American...US comedy sucks, with very rare exception...

	23-02-2005 03:59									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Japher I thought Kids in the Hall was a riot... Braincandy is one my most favorite movies about drugs and homosexuals.

Monty Python PWNS Kids in the Hall

And Blackadder PWNS both!

	23-02-2005 03:59									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Kontiki You don't need to ask DanS - it's not even close. Look up comparative GDP's. Start adding up western European countries. You'll notice you can stop after the big four.

Pick any of the big 3 and you can stop after 1.

	23-02-2005 04:02									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Dauphin There are many who say that Britain *is* an aircraft carrier.

Why isn't Europe as a whole not mentioned in the poll?

	23-02-2005 04:09									#47
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quote: Originally posted by alva Why isn't Europe as a whole not mentioned in the poll?

Now, it's not like it isn't missing, is it?

	23-02-2005 04:13									#48
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China is much like the US in the 1890's. Inward looking and unsure of itself but possessing formidable financial and manufacturing power.

There big problem is they don't have the force projection capability to play with the big boys yet but if it keeps growing then they will have the money nd manufacturing ability to do it. The only real question is how quickly this is achieved and how much technical expertise they can convince the west or Russia to transfer to them.

	23-02-2005 04:16									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin China is much like the US in the 1890's. Inward looking and unsure of itself but possessing formidable financial and manufacturing power. There big problem is they don't have the force projection capability to play with the big boys yet but if it keeps growing then they will have the money nd manufacturing ability to do it. The only real question is how quickly this is achieved and how much technical expertise they can convince the west or Russia to transfer to them.

which occurs to me. You don't become #1 by using other people's technlogy. You invent it yourself. If China wants to become a playa, they are going to have to do it themselves.

Sure USSR stole some tech from the U.S., but alot of their technology they came up with themselves.

	23-02-2005 04:20									#50
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quote: Originally posted by alva Why isn't Europe as a whole not mentioned in the poll?

The Iraq crisis has showen how well Europe is at acting in concert.

	23-02-2005 04:35									#51
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It's all a clever ploy ... so good, we believe it ourselves.

	23-02-2005 04:40									#52
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Personally, France and the UK are very close- their economies are about the same size, their military spending is similar, and the French do have military projection like the UK does (needed since they have used their military to intervene in a variety of places much more than the UK has) Yes, the UK has a couple of small carriers, and the French have one single slightly bigger carrier, thought the program to modernize their carrier force is stalled due to the budget- but they are planning to have a carrier that is more than a base for a dozen harriers. The fact the French decided not to place their forces in Iraq does not mean they can't.

I think diplomatically they have the same heft around the world- its not like the commonwealth gives the UK a huge advantage.

So I would point to an overall Franco-UK tie.

Germany, Japan, and China all have bigger economies, but lack in the force projection and diplomacy spheres.

	23-02-2005 04:48									#53
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I agree with GePap until he ends them in a tie. France losses because everyone thinks they are a bunch winney be'atches. Not to mention the fact that they only want to work 2 hours a day, have bad buisness structures, and persecute jews.

France has no clout and no cultural influence on any self respecting country...

Thus, UK is second.

	23-02-2005 05:42									#54
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France does spend considerably more on defense ($46.5B vs $31.7B) but I believe much of the French budget gets eatten up by "draftees" who in practice end up painting government buildings and picking up roads side trash instead of planes, ships, and tanks like the British spend their money on.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milit...ld/spending.htm

	23-02-2005 08:43									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Kontiki Why do so many people overestimate the strength of China and underestimate that of the UK?

China has good PR and Britain has terrible PR.

	23-02-2005 08:49									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Japher I agree with GePap until he ends them in a tie. France losses because everyone thinks they are a bunch winney be'atches.

s/everyone/Anglo-Americans/;

quote: Not to mention the fact that they only want to work 2 hours a day,

w00t. Jetsons' style. The future is there now.

quote: and persecute jews.

The hell?

quote: France has no clout and no cultural influence on any self respecting country...

Are Russia and Turkey self-respecting countries?

	23-02-2005 09:00									#57
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although...

shouldn't the number of nukes be the sole determination in this thread?

And we all know who has the #2 of nukes.

Because if we are talking about power, nukes are power. Though they don't do much economically.

	23-02-2005 09:04									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Pax As far as comedy goes. Most of us have no idea what how funny or not the chinese are. The most we ever really get to see is Jackie Chan.

Stephen Chow is hilarious. Check out his stuff.

	23-02-2005 17:29									#59
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quote: Look up comparative GDP's. Start adding up western European countries. You'll notice you can stop after the big four.

what good is money if you can't produce the weaponry required to wage war? If you go on GDP alone, fine, UK wins. But remember that we were brought to our knees by German subs in WW2. As soon as that happens...

Better question would be to compare the industrial output (ie steel, iron, electricity, amount of food produced within their borders, and the amount imported etc...) of the western European countries, to that of China, and see who wins...

	23-02-2005 17:51									#60
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Nukes are possibly less important than you might think. To be any use you need to find a scenario you are willing to use them. Or others need to think there is one.