25-02-2005 23:07									#1
	RIP Troika Remove this text

quote: Troika Closes Rumors solidify: the RPG specialist is shutting its doors. by David Adams February 24, 2005 - After a swirl of rumors that the studio was in its final days, joint CEO Leonard Boyarsky confirmed to fan sites today that Troika has closed. Fallout fan site No Mutants Allowed today posted a letter from Boyarsky explaining the closure. "As many of you may have already heard, Troika has laid off all of its employees and is closing its doors due to our inability to secure funding for future projects," he writes. "We want to thank all of our fans for their support these past seven years, it has really meant a lot to us that there were people out there who enjoyed our games enough to create fan-sites and follow our progress as a company." Troika formed in 1998 when Boyarsky, Tim Cain, and Jason Anderson became literal fallout from Interplay, just as Fallout 2 was about to hit. The studio specialized in creating RPG titles based on pen-and-paper systems, including, recently, Vampire: The Masquerade -- Bloodlines and the Dungeons & Dragons-based Temple of Elemental Evil, as well as 2001's classic Arcanum. Apparently, however, the studio's titles, designed for hard-core RPG enthusiasts, didn't move enough units to keep the company afloat. It isn't clear yet just what the former Troika trio, or its team, will do next. "We have not yet made the decision as to whether Troika Games as an entity will regroup and pursue future projects or simply cease to exist," writes Boyarsky. He offers particular thanks to his employees: "[We] had the pleasure of working with the some of the most dedicated, hard working, creative people in the industry, and we really appreciate all that they did for Troika." Bloodlines, Troika's final project, used Valve's advanced Source engine, and was released in November almost simultaneously with the titanic Half-Life 2.

as reported by ign
http://pc.ign.com/articles/590/590612p1.html

All I know is that this sucks! These are the guys who came up with fallout, and I really liked their approach to games, unfortunantly it seems like they never had the greatest QA though. I'm not sure about Vampire:Bloodlines, but all of their other games have seemed buggy, made that's what did them in. I hope they get a job at Bethesda working on Fallout 3, now wouldn't that be awesome?!

	25-02-2005 23:38									#2
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Beat you to it

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...506#post3643506

	25-02-2005 23:44									#3
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Vampire:Bloodlines is a bug fest. Fortunately, it doesn't kill the game. Btw, if your machine can handle it, you should get it.

	25-02-2005 23:50									#4
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I was never impressed with the lack of quality control that Troika manifested in almost all their games. They reached for the stars, but always fell short. Ah well, they tried, bless them.

-Jam

	26-02-2005 01:05									#5
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Never good to see a company with even some promise die though.

	26-02-2005 15:51									#6
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especialy these days, with many in the games industry prediciting the death of PC gaming by and large

	26-02-2005 17:48									#7
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The real problem is they seemed to have made well on each of their games, but lack the money to invest in a new project. Bethesda getting Fallout 3 was probably what killed them. Their QA was rough, but their games were very playable despite the bugs (I mean Arcanum, ToEE too though I didn't like that much, it being purely hack and slash storyless).

	26-02-2005 22:07									#8
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Been lots of such lately it seems... I've never played any of their games, but any close down is a loss IMO.

	26-02-2005 23:13									#9
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quote: especialy these days, with many in the games industry prediciting the death of PC gaming by and large

That's a bit alarmist, no? At most, it's consolidating. There are too many developpers making too many games.

That said, my PC gaming days are probably over, for now at least. Since I plugged in my Radeon I had nothing but problems. My PC is crashing all the time. I don't have the time to deal with that ****. So I'll probably remove the card and sell it. I still have my Xbox. It works, at least.

	26-02-2005 23:31									#10
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Moral : Don't buy Radeon cards. Get Nvidia.

-Jam

	26-02-2005 23:59									#11
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quote: That's a bit alarmist, no? At most, it's consolidating. There are too many developpers making too many games.

The real problem is they are all making the same games. Troika did some original stuff. Arcanum's setting was unique for instance. If indies disappear and the only ones that are left are EA, then I'll stop playing games.

	27-02-2005 01:13									#12
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First of all, PC gaming isn't dying. That's a myth. Like Brad Wardell pointed out:

quote: The problem with the industry isn't that it's a small market or that it's dying, the problem is that there are just too many games released each year relative to the number of people who buy them.

You're right, of course, when you say they're all making the same games. But even if the game published were original, there would still be too many games released each year relative to the number of people who buy them. Btw, Brad Wardell wrote a series of articles on the gaming industry, demolishing in the process a lot of myths.

http://www.avault.com/developer/index.asp?index=main3

	27-02-2005 02:15									#13
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Wardell in particular wrote about the expectations one can have for an indie game. Selling 30,000 copies of an indie game is a big hit. If you look around the web there are really many many indie games being developped. The big houses concentrate on titles they know will sell well, and it's hard to create a game that will get published.
Let's consider the differences between Troika and Wardell's Stardock games:
Troika published several games, which were all rushed a bit, with things cut off and technical problems (bugs). These were all distributed by big houses.
Stardock funded their projects themselves, thansk to resources which are external to the gaming industry (and that investment paid back, bith for Galciv and The Political Machine). They didn't rush Galciv, and in fact added stuff during the beta instead of cutting things off like ToEE where a whole set of quests got cut by the publisher. This resulted in higher quality products. The Political Machine was more bugged because it had a tighter deadline. And it got published by a big house instead of Strategy First.
Troika could have continued developping games had they had a contract from a publisher. They haven't, so they're toast, and that's a pity. But then again, a publisher wouldn't have asked them something original, so would they have been able to add value to that game (and what will Fallout3 look like in the hands of Bethesda)?

	27-02-2005 02:22									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski Moral : Don't buy Radeon cards. Get Nvidia. -Jam

Moral: don't lsiten to Jam!

	27-02-2005 03:15									#15
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quote: Troika could have continued developping games had they had a contract from a publisher. They haven't, so they're toast, and that's a pity. But then again, a publisher wouldn't have asked them something original, so would they have been able to add value to that game (and what will Fallout3 look like in the hands of Bethesda)?

Yet Activision published Vampire: bloodlines, which was a fairly original product. The setting itself is refreshingly original, at least compared to the other products on the market. And Troika pushed the limits of the RPG genre in a number of ways, particularly with the game's dialogues. Yet people didn't buy the game. Why? Is it Activision's fault? Or Troika's? But probably the main reason for Troika's early demise is bad management. At least, Wardell seems to have an understanding of the market.

	27-02-2005 03:51									#16
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I admit I didn't buy any of their games. Are they any good?

	27-02-2005 04:06									#17
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Vampire: bloodlines is one of the best RPGs I ever played. So if your system can handle it, by all means get it!

	27-02-2005 04:32									#18
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is it about vampires (as the title would suggest), I never cared for vampire mythology very much.

	27-02-2005 05:04									#19
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It is almost exclusively aimed at vampire-likers.

-Jam

	27-02-2005 05:39									#20
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Yes, it's about vampires, but it's an interesting twist on vampire mythology. You don't have to be a goth to enjoy this game. I'm not exactly a vampire lover, but it's nice change of pace from the usual tolkienish heroic fantasy. There's not furry-footed freak in da game!

Last edited by nostromo on 27-02-2005 at 05:51

	27-02-2005 06:39									#21
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Personally, I'd recommend Arcanum- though it's a bit 'dull' at times, its sheer character creation and world concept is so original that the game's worth playing.

	27-02-2005 07:07									#22
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quote: Originally posted by nostromo it's nice change of pace from the usual tolkienish heroic fantasy.

	27-02-2005 13:41									#23
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quote: Yet Activision published Vampire: bloodlines, which was a fairly original product.

That's because the Vampires game is based on a pen and paper RPG and thus they thought there was a market for it. Arcanum was much more original for instance.
And I'm unsure Vampires sold badly. Where do you get that piece of information? It certainly got released late/buggy, probably in part because of delays in the engine, and it may take a lot of time for a developper to get paid by the publisher (again, Wardell points this out).

	27-02-2005 16:22									#24
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Vampires are pretty cool. I intend to play through this at some point. I have it already.

	27-02-2005 23:03									#25
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quote: Arcanum was much more original for instance.

How so? Because of the setting? They didn't invent the steampunk genre. It's probably a first in crpgs, though.

quote: And I'm unsure Vampires sold badly. Where do you get that piece of information?

Speculation. In general, if a RPG isn't tolkienish heroic fantasy, it doesn't sell. Planescape: Torment didn't do very well. There are some exceptions, of course. Afaik, Fallout did fairly well. KOTOR also did very well.

	28-02-2005 04:46									#26
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Damn It's really too bad. I loved Arcanum, and I hoped that they would do other games with similarly original settings such as Fallout and Arcanum. Time to move on, I guess

	28-02-2005 05:26									#27
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quote: Originally posted by nostromo Speculation. In general, if a RPG isn't tolkienish heroic fantasy, it doesn't sell. Planescape: Torment didn't do very well. There are some exceptions, of course. Afaik, Fallout did fairly well. KOTOR also did very well.

But it was about vampires. VAMPIRES

	28-02-2005 08:06									#28
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I agree, it had a lot going for it. It's the best looking RPG on the market, thanks to Valve's Source engine. An intricate, stylish setting featuring vampires. But the fact that it isn't tolkienish heroic fantasy probably didn't help. Other possible reasons:

- it didn't have enough media exposure;

- there are too many games to choose from. When I bought it, I had the choice between Neverwinter nights, World of Warcraft and Knights of the old republic 2. I can't buy them all. So I choose Vampire: bloodlines.

	28-02-2005 17:16									#29
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Troika were great plot developers but they always let themselves down on quality control and scheduling. Sadly that meant that the publishers didn't rush to pay them on time or sign them up for another title. That is a crying shame because I'd definitely have been looking forward to any new games based on the ToEE or Vampire design concepts, despite their rough edges.

Now that their former employees have scattered to the four winds, I hope little gleams of Trioka humour and plot diversity will be popping up in other studios.

	02-03-2005 22:30									#30
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quote: Originally posted by nostromo That's a bit alarmist, no? At most, it's consolidating. There are too many developpers making too many games.

US PC game sales have have been declining for several years, apparently, from a high in the late 90's, IIRC. Now theres some issues with that data (it probably doesnt cover much on line sales, and doesnt included ongoing MMORPG revenue) but its still a troubling statistic. I dont think PC gaming is dying (cause of A. the data issues i mentioned and B. Even if it shrinks dramatrically, thats not necessarily death) but the lack of sales IS a real issue, I think. Also Im not sure I take Brad as gospel - ive seen things hes posted in various places, and he tends to base alot of things on Stardocks own experiences, which arent always generalizable.