27-02-2005 02:06									#1
	Battle problem Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Ever since i bought Conquests, I cannot win a single battle on chieftain level

Even when I move my swordsman ( veteran ) onto a spearman ( regular ), the spearman wins. This is so frustrating. I built an army of 5 swordsmen and they all died infront of one city in one turn ( not captial city ).

Can anyone explain to me this phenomenon? Do I have to do speeches to the monitor to raise the army morale?

cheers mates


Tomasz

	27-02-2005 03:31									#2
	Support Apolyton

Swordsmen only have an attack of 3. Against spearmen with a defense of 2 (plus a bunch of bonuses), you can't expect to just run over them. If you want to use swordsmen, it's going to take a lot of them. Bring some spears and catapults/trebs with you to reduce your losses.

Edit: And of course, the RNG doesn't always cooperate. Give it another shot with a little more support behind your troops and you should be alright

	27-02-2005 03:54									#3
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I know this seems strange, but I seem to do better when I have an overwhelming force.

Every once in a while I'll try to take a city with just a couple of units. It never works. Even with the numbers in your favour.

I seem to get better battle rolls when I have more units than the AI faction. (check the military advisor and see if you are strong compared to them).

moral of the story. waging war with just a few units is pointless. This game forces you to build sufficient military. Even at low levels. Games like SMAC you can get away with no military at lower levels.

	27-02-2005 05:53									#4
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

If you really had 5 sowrds to attack a single forted spear in a town (6 or less pop), then you should have wone at least once.

I would look to be sure you were not attacking the town across a river. That will give a big boost to the defender.

Forted give 125% def (total)
River gives another 25%, totla 150%.
If a city or it has walls another 50% total 200%.

The sword still should win, but it often does not. Was your sword a vet or a rehular? Was the spear a vet or reg? Note if a reg and wins, it could become a vet and gain another hit point. It could further go elite and gain additional hit point.

If I sent 5 swords and hit one spear, I am going to win. Probably the town had more than one defender. If it had any bombarment units, they would take a free shot as well.

	28-02-2005 04:30									#5
	Re: Battle problem Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Tomasz Ever since i bought Conquests, I cannot win a single battle on chieftain level Even when I move my swordsman ( veteran ) onto a spearman ( regular ), the spearman wins. This is so frustrating. I built an army of 5 swordsmen and they all died infront of one city in one turn ( not captial city ). Can anyone explain to me this phenomenon? Do I have to do speeches to the monitor to raise the army morale? cheers mates Tomasz

This is one of the reasons I am always the persians, they get immortals once you have iron which are twice as good as swordsmen against spearmen. It's very rare for a veteran immortal to lose against a spearmen on cheiftain. Dont forget citieis above size six get a defense bonus, plus terrain, plus the wall if the CPU opponent built one. As the previous poster alread mentioned you can take some bombardment units. Also elite or a vet archer or 2 with your swordsmen should even things out a bit, I always, always take defensive units with my offensive units so that when they are attacked the defensive unit (spearmen, etc) soaks up the damage leaving my attacking units free from harm, there is a reason why the CPU always takes a unit or two with settlers, apply this same principle when attacking with slow moving units like swordsmen/immortals.

	28-02-2005 05:59									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

On top of the previous comments, it could be worse: Was the city on a hill? Did the AI civ have the Great Wall? Etc, etc.

Welcome to the wonderful world of the Civ3 RNG... as Diss notes, show up with overwhelming force, and it won't be a problem. Usually. If it still happens, don't make morale-stirring speeches to your monitor; throw the damn thing out the window!

Seriously: The RNG can suck. BUT, as I've argued in the past, Swords are *more* than fine. Give me enough of'em, and I'll knowk down pretty much anything in my path. Sword-level UUs are even tastier... I truly love Legionnaries and Immortals.

	28-02-2005 07:32									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I love the Legion as well, because it has def of 3, very nice. Best defender for a very very long time and can attack any ancient unit.

	28-02-2005 20:50									#8
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Get used to employing CTRL-SHIFT-M to eliminate cities, units and tile improvements. This will let you clearly see the geography before you intiate a battle. Look for the hills, rivers, etc. and plan accordingly.

CTRL-SHIFT-M again to return to the normal view.

	28-02-2005 22:08									#9
	Remove this text

Cheers mates for all the feedback. I got to do the numbers tactic. I had a 10 unit army with swordsmen, archers, 2 catapults, and spearmen and I crushed the evil Portuguese like ants

The other time when I was always losing, it was in normal circumstances: no hill, below 3 city, no walls.

I think its the numbers that make a difference in war.


BTW what is RNG?

I always play as the Americans, they are not militaristic, maybe thats the case. It's just, I cant stand playing any other civ

Off topic: Do you know any really cool scenarios of WW1 or WW2 for CWC, and can u pass me a link?

cheers again mates


Tomasz

	28-02-2005 22:17									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

RNG - random number generator

	28-02-2005 22:46									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Tomasz Cheers mates for all the feedback. I got to do the numbers tactic. I had a 10 unit army with swordsmen, archers, 2 catapults, and spearmen and I crushed the evil Portuguese like ants The other time when I was always losing, it was in normal circumstances: no hill, below 3 city, no walls. I think its the numbers that make a difference in war. BTW what is RNG? I always play as the Americans, they are not militaristic, maybe thats the case. It's just, I cant stand playing any other civ Off topic: Do you know any really cool scenarios of WW1 or WW2 for CWC, and can u pass me a link? cheers again mates Tomasz

yeah it's amazing what 10 units can do for you instead of 5. It's weird the way the "rolls" go in the combat. Kind of annoying at times, but I try not to let it ruin the game for me.

here are some scenarios. I really haven't had a chance to try them out. I want to try the civil war one out, when I get time.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/forum...p?s=&forumid=75

	28-02-2005 22:48									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

The militarousic traight doesn't affect who wins in a given battle. What it does do is increase promotions when you survive.

Usally the defenders in cities will be fortified. And the minimum terraign bonsus while defending is 10%

Adding them up, the real ratio is 3 vs 2.7

2 + [10% * 2] + [25% * 2] =
2 + .2 + .5 =
2.7

Your edge in winning a single combat is slight indeed, some of the defenders are likely to get promoted if their militaretic.

I generally recomend a minimum of 1.5 Swords per Spear before attacking. 2 to 1 is better still.

Also a few Horses added to Swords can do wonders. Horses can wound the enemy and retreat with 1 HP remaining, softening them up.

	01-03-2005 00:26									#13
	Tired of ads?

I'd recommend attacking with a real army- triple the hitpoints, increase attack and movement and that single unit will almost never lose the battle. Of course, you have to win a few regular unit battles first...

	01-03-2005 01:33									#14
	Re: Re: Battle problem Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by xts3 ...It's very rare for a veteran immortal to lose against a spearmen on cheiftain...

I'm not sure if you meant what it sounds like you meant, but difficulty-level doesn't affect combat odds (except against barbarians).

	01-03-2005 02:41									#15
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

vetran units have nothing to do with difficulty level

Standard Hit Points:

Conscripts: 2
Regular : 3
Vetran : 4
Elite : 5

Certain units have +1 hp bonus in Conquests. (Such as Indian War Elephant)

	02-03-2005 01:15									#16
	Catapults - Just say no! Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I loved catapults in the original Civ. I always used them in early conquests, but now they can be captured and won't move over rough terrain unlerss there's a road or rail. Yeah, more realistic, sure and thats great! I now save my war mongering for the late industrial/early modernage when I have tanks and bombers. I soften the city with bombers and then send in the clowns... er, I mean tanks, first regualr armor, then mech inf. then the modernized army. Does real well when the opponet is still loading muskets and beating plowshares into swords.

	02-03-2005 02:14									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Cats are sweet. Ancient warfare is awesome... I think you are missing the best part of the game. Sure, I like the modern toys also, but it takes a bit more strategy to win in the ancient wars. The modern wars tend to be more about numbers...admittedly a bit tedious at times.

	02-03-2005 02:21									#18
	Re: Catapults - Just say no! Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by DreamSlave2112 I soften the city with bombers and then send in the clowns... er, I mean tanks, first regualr armor, then mech inf. then the modernized army. Does real well when the opponet is still loading muskets and beating plowshares into swords.

Move up a level if you are using MA and MI vs musket, in fact move up two levels.