28-02-2005 03:57									#1
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There's this organization called Suomalaisuuden Liitto in Finland. They're mostly in the news when there's debate about bilingualism going on - they're against it and wish for Swedish language to not be compulsory in the schools.

Well, here you can read their version of the history of Finland. Seems that everything bad that ever happened to our country has happened because of 1. Sweden or 2. Swedish-speaking Finns.

Any Swedes in da house who can tell how much veracity the document has?

Last edited by Stefu on 28-02-2005 at 17:05

	28-02-2005 04:04									#2
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I realize nationalism and national politics play a role but it seems like teaching Finnish children another language would be a good way to give them an economic edge in the new global economy.

	28-02-2005 04:07									#3
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Teaching them English is good enough.

	28-02-2005 04:16									#4
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quote: Inconceivable as it may sound, in a country with a mere 5,6 % Swedish-speaking minority, all Finnish school-children are forced to study Swedish.

I believe the UK is officially bilingual (English & Welsh) despite the fact that the Welsh only speakers are next to dead in the country and the language mainly survives by forcing young children to study it in school without ever really using it later in life. A compromise solution could be to stop teaching both Swedish and Finnish and have everyone just speak English. You will be assimilated anyway so why not get on board the bus?

	28-02-2005 04:18									#5
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Because we will slay you until you speak Finnish.

	28-02-2005 04:22									#6
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I've seen enough Suomithreadi to know that Finnish is fair beyond my meager abilities.

	28-02-2005 04:30									#7
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It's just that you need to be motivated enough... I know few methods... A NAKED HUMAN PYRAMID! LEARN you bastard LEARN!

	28-02-2005 04:48									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin quote: Inconceivable as it may sound, in a country with a mere 5,6 % Swedish-speaking minority, all Finnish school-children are forced to study Swedish. I believe the UK is officially bilingual (English & Welsh) despite the fact that the Welsh only speakers are next to dead in the country and the language mainly survives by forcing young children to study it in school without ever really using it later in life. A compromise solution could be to stop teaching both Swedish and Finnish and have everyone just speak English. You will be assimilated anyway so why not get on board the bus?

Errr....news to me. We have bilingual bits of the UK (ie, Wales is officially bilingual and you have a right to request any government form in Welsh) but it's not nationwide policy. In addition to Welsh, you can request most government forms in Hindi, Urdu, Chinese, Tamili, and Arabic. Welsh certainly isn't taught nationwide at schools as a second language. That honour is reserved for French.

And even then....barely just. It's been English cultural policy for centuries to force, entice, or pay people to speak our language. Accomidating other tongues is a relatively recent policy shift.

	28-02-2005 04:53									#9
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We should have kicked you back into Russia in 1917.

	28-02-2005 05:13									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I realize nationalism and national politics play a role but it seems like teaching Finnish children another language would be a good way to give them an economic edge in the new global economy.

Spanish, French, German

	28-02-2005 05:28									#11
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Latin, Greek, Russian, Italian, Arabic, Japanese

	28-02-2005 05:28									#12
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Kasssiopeia, why would you want to tie your boat to those sinking ships? English shall beat them all.

Starchild, I meant in Wales not all of the UK. I realize England, Scotland, and Northern Ireland don't bother to teach people Welsh. As I understand the duchy of Wales does require students to learn but I may be wrong about that. The sad thing is northern Welsh is incomprehensible to southern Welsh or visa vera so the fact remains even government backed broadcasting will not save this language.

	28-02-2005 05:31									#13
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Duchy of Wales? They're supposed to be a principatility.

	28-02-2005 05:37									#14
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Well Charlie boy is the Prince of Wales so maybe you're right but for some reason I always thought they were a Duchy.

	28-02-2005 05:43									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Kasssiopeia, why would you want to tie your boat to those sinking ships? English shall beat them all.

The Finnish youth do not need education to learn English thanks to American cultural imperialism

	28-02-2005 05:53									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Kasssiopeia, why would you want to tie your boat to those sinking ships? English shall beat them all. Starchild, I meant in Wales not all of the UK. I realize England, Scotland, and Northern Ireland don't bother to teach people Welsh. As I understand the duchy of Wales does require students to learn but I may be wrong about that. The sad thing is northern Welsh is incomprehensible to southern Welsh or visa vera so the fact remains even government backed broadcasting will not save this language.

Then you can't say the UK is officially bilingual when only a small part of the population in a small member nation is the bilingual one.

I don't even know what the status of Wales is anymore. It manages to be a principality, a nation, a geographic area and a part of England ( ) all at the same time.

	28-02-2005 06:22									#17
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I know Swedes are evil, especially the ones in western Minnesota who vote Republican.

	28-02-2005 11:08									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka It's just that you need to be motivated enough... I know few methods... A NAKED HUMAN PYRAMID! LEARN you bastard LEARN!

Our words are backed with NUCLEAR WEAPONS...

...yours are backed with frostbite, runny noses, and books about Hobbits.



Point, set, match.

	28-02-2005 11:35									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I realize nationalism and national politics play a role but it seems like teaching Finnish children another language would be a good way to give them an economic edge in the new global economy.

Not Swedish, though.

	28-02-2005 16:55									#20
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Due to Finland's location in Northern Europe I think Swedish should come right after English in the school curricula.

Learning Swedish has actually been one of the most useful things I've ever spent my time doing

*shudders at the thought of never having been able to read Norwegian faglitteratur*

(=professional literature)

	28-02-2005 18:52									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Kasssiopeia, why would you want to tie your boat to those sinking ships? English shall beat them all. Starchild, I meant in Wales not all of the UK. I realize England, Scotland, and Northern Ireland don't bother to teach people Welsh. As I understand the duchy of Wales does require students to learn but I may be wrong about that. The sad thing is northern Welsh is incomprehensible to southern Welsh or visa vera so the fact remains even government backed broadcasting will not save this language.

What exactly is 'northern Welsh'and 'southern Welsh' ?

Wales isn't a duchy, it's a principality. 21 % of the Welsh population speak Welsh and they will inevitably be fluent in English.

There is a television channel devoted to programming in Welsh with children's programmes proving popular even to pre-school children of immigrants and migrants from the rest of the United Kingdom. Road signs and shop signs and information leaflets are bilingual. Far from Welsh dying out, it is the only Celtic language to have regained parity in legal and governmental usage.

It is also still spoken (and sung) from Argentina to Australia. You will find, for instance, a Welsh church in Melbourne city centre where people homesick for the valleys can hear a church service conducted in Welsh.

	28-02-2005 18:56									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Odin I know Swedes are evil, especially the ones in western Minnesota who vote Republican.

The really bad ones are the Republican-voting ones in western Minnesota that harbour a cloying nostalgic love for Sweden.

	28-02-2005 18:57									#23
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Swedes are OK but Last Conformist is a slut and bad person.

	28-02-2005 19:51									#24
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I live by the damn fenno-suedo border, and i have never, ever needed swedish anywhere else than school.

It's usually even referred to as "pakko-ruotsi", "forced swedish"...

	28-02-2005 22:46									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I believe the UK is officially bilingual (English & Welsh) despite the fact that the Welsh only speakers are next to dead in the country and the language mainly survives by forcing young children to study it in school without ever really using it later in life.

Strictly speaking, there are six recognised native languages in the UK- English, Welsh, Scots Gaelic, Irish Gaelic, Manx and Cornish. You'd struggle to find any speaker of the "other 5" that doesn't speak English, however.

Cornish was technically extinct for a century, but is being revived by groups such as Mebyon Kernow.

	01-03-2005 00:56									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I realize nationalism and national politics play a role but it seems like teaching Finnish children another language would be a good way to give them an economic edge in the new global economy.

Strangely enough some of the Finns who study in Wales learn to speak Welsh fluently (as well as English)

	01-03-2005 01:38									#27
	Re: Evil evil Sweden Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Stefu There's this organization called Suomalaisuuden Liitto in Finland. They're mostly in the news when there's debate about bilingualism going on - they're against it and wish for Swedish language to not be compulsory in the schools. Well, here you can read their version of the history of Finland. Seems that everything bad that ever happened to our country has happened because of 1. Sweden or 2. Swedish-speaking Finns. Any Swedes in da house who can tell how much veracity the document has?

I only read the first paragraph, but I think it´s pretty accurate. We were not nice to other people back then (well, no one was really...). For instance, the Saami were forced to learn Swedish in their schools and were practically forbidden to talk saami. It wasn´t until 1962 that the saami language was made mandatory in the schools. They were also subjects to Stalin-type forced migrations.

But to claim that everything bad that has happened to Finland is Swedens fault is a bit much IMO

	01-03-2005 02:28									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Aivo½so Due to Finland's location in Northern Europe I think Swedish should come right after English in the school curricula.

Due to Finland sharing most of its border with Russia and russians outnumbering scandinavians the way they do, this should be russia, if anything.

	01-03-2005 02:30									#29
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Hebrew!

	01-03-2005 03:09									#30
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Sweden is evil. That's a fact I guess every neighbour of it can be sure of.