01-03-2005 03:24									#1
	I don't get the Lib Dems Suffering from ads?

The Lib dems have htis grand idea of raising top end income tax to 50% (for earners over 100k a year).

Now, I can't see that raising to much money in itself, yet they have spent that money on EVERYTHING. Whenever any spending issues come up, we hear '50% for 100k a year earners!!!!'


I mean, seriously, it's like that tax will raise an infinate amount of cash

	01-03-2005 03:29									#2
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It all depends on the number of people in the country earning > £100K. I'd imagine it's a fair few. Without being given more info on their numbers no-one can really comment, but they do tend to be more reasonable than the populist conservatives on that front.

Having said that, and while I do like the lib dems, they're the third party, while they'll take a big bite out of the conservatives in may they'll still be the third party after the election, so I would imagine coming up with a spending plan that can be picked apart by parliament and the media after coming to power is less of a priority than Labour.

	01-03-2005 03:30									#3
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It's not that, it's the fact that when they say 50%, they mean 70%

	01-03-2005 03:39									#4
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Yes but their leader is ginger... it'd be like voting for Guns n' Roses

	01-03-2005 03:41									#5
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well, high earners are already paying 40%, or there abouts. It just seems silly

	01-03-2005 03:46									#6
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quote: Originally posted by The Andy-Man well, high earners are already paying 40%, or there abouts. It just seems silly

41%. But then the average sod is paying 33%. Its just gloss the fact that income tax' is stated as only 22%

	01-03-2005 03:48									#7
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Also, tax liability as a percentage of income dips a bit at ~£35k, that kink should be fixed first.

	01-03-2005 03:48									#8
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quote: well, high earners are already paying 40%, or there abouts. It just seems silly

Yes but...

	01-03-2005 04:10									#9
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quote: Originally posted by The Andy-Man well, high earners are already paying 40%, or there abouts. It just seems silly

Why?

	01-03-2005 04:35									#10
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it seems silly that just by bumping it to 50%, they all of a sudden have an infinate suply of cash they won't shut up about

	01-03-2005 04:45									#11
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Okay, if you can name for me all the policies the Lib Dems have said they'll spend this money on, I'll keep listening. I've heard (from the BBC) scrapping tuition and top-up fees, free personal care for the elderly and a rather vague promise to cut local taxes. Am I missing anything?

	02-03-2005 13:12									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Clear Skies nd a rather vague promise to cut local taxes. Am I missing anything?

Pre-election manifesto here: http://www.libdems.org.uk/documents...sto04_small.pdf

Says that tuition fees, child care and lower local taxes will cost £ 4.3bn and that these will all be paid for by the wealth tax.

Also going to dump the child trust fund (no subsidised 18th birthday parties for the plebs) ID cards and the DTI

No figures on how much the local income tax will cost those of us who are not pensioners or low-earners

	02-03-2005 22:57									#13
	Re: I don't get the Lib Dems Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by The Andy-Man The Lib dems have htis grand idea of raising top end income tax to 50% (for earners over 100k a year). Now, I can't see that raising to much money in itself, yet they have spent that money on EVERYTHING. Whenever any spending issues come up, we hear '50% for 100k a year earners!!!!' I mean, seriously, it's like that tax will raise an infinate amount of cash

On the plus side, it's still more credible than the Tory plans- which appear to be based on the hope that they'll find the money down the back of the sofa.

	02-03-2005 23:02									#14
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Progressive taxation:

	02-03-2005 23:07									#15
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i would have thought that even the briefest of glances at the lib-dems spending 'plans' would reveal things far more laughable than increasing the top rate of tax...

	03-03-2005 00:13									#16
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Used to vote Lib Dem until I realised how closed minded they were ideologically

	03-03-2005 00:19									#17
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quote: that these will all be paid for by the wealth tax

I oppose wealth taxation, higher income tax on high income earners for sure, but no wealth taxes please.

	03-03-2005 00:26									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Dauphin quote: that these will all be paid for by the wealth tax I oppose wealth taxation, higher income tax on high income earners for sure, but no wealth taxes please.

What is the distinction?

	03-03-2005 00:29									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Zulu Elephant What is the distinction?

To most people, a "wealth tax" is a tax on assets or wealth rather than on income. A lot of people who accept progressive income taxation also oppose a wealth tax

	03-03-2005 00:36									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber To most people, a "wealth tax" is a tax on assets or wealth rather than on income. A lot of people who accept progressive income taxation also oppose a wealth tax

Like a house? Or money sitting in a bank account?

	03-03-2005 00:55									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Zulu Elephant Like a house? Or money sitting in a bank account?

Depends on the type as to what is included but you have the idea. You pretty much have to tax all asset value or it would be an easy tax to avoid by purchasing assets of the exempt class.


Most proponents favor taxing the wealthy if their "assets " exceed certain thresholds. I have seen people mention this as a possible annual tax while others seem to try to target inheritences and wealth transfers

	03-03-2005 00:59									#22
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Oh and personally I am not a big fan of wealth taxes. Income taxes have taken between 15 and 40+% of everything I earn and I paid an additional 7% to 15% VAT on pretty much everything I have.

So I got taxed on earning and I got taxed on acquiring-- I don't really think it is fair to tax me again for "having" if I happen to hit some threshold like a million dollars some day

	03-03-2005 01:09									#23
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I'm opposed to it primarily because I don't believe recurrent taxation of the same asset is particular fair, unless that particular asset has a cost to maintain that is not reflected other than by such taxation.

	03-03-2005 01:12									#24
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Cheers.

However i dont see how being for progressive taxation and higher inheritence tax (a wealth tax) are ideologically mutually exlcusive.

	03-03-2005 01:15									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Dauphin I'm opposed to it primarily because I don't believe recurrent taxation of the same asset is particular fair, unless that particular asset has a cost to maintain that is not reflected other than by such taxation.

Understandable

Besides most people face a form of wealth tax in their municipal property assessments anyway. Its unrelated to service usage ( our water is metred) but the guy in the million dollar home faces a municipal tax bill 4 times as high as the guy in the 250,000 home.

This is actually becoming an issue here in Calgary as the inner city home valuies skyrocket. Many older folks don't have enough money to pay the tax bill for their home and end up having to sell. While they can do well on such sale, there's something about the whole thing that just feels wrong

	03-03-2005 01:17									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Zulu Elephant Cheers. However i dont see how being for progressive taxation and higher inheritence tax (a wealth tax) are ideologically mutually exlcusive.

They're not . Some people support both. Personally I happen to support only one. I think income taxation combined with a VAT are the way to go. If you need revenue, get it from those means.

	03-03-2005 01:18									#27
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ZE. They're not, Lefties could well support both.

	03-03-2005 01:20									#28
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I'll put in my two pence and say that VAT (and other regressive taxes) are crap.

	03-03-2005 01:26									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber Besides most people face a form of wealth tax in their municipal property assessments anyway. Its unrelated to service usage ( our water is metred) but the guy in the million dollar home faces a municipal tax bill 4 times as high as the guy in the 250,000 home. This is actually becoming an issue here in Calgary as the inner city home valuies skyrocket. Many older folks don't have enough money to pay the tax bill for their home and end up having to sell. While they can do well on such sale, there's something about the whole thing that just feels wrong

Council tax is an interesting one. With council tax the concept of the wealth tax for its own sake is often lost. Its often not based on the ability to pay, which is an ideological basis for wealth taxes.

	03-03-2005 01:27									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo I'll put in my two pence and say that VAT (and other regressive taxes) are crap.

I actually don't much like VATs either but I accept one in preference to a tax on wealth.