04-03-2005 04:40									#31
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Well, it has to be 7 "battles" on Lego, otherwise they would have needed a victory by a Marine as well.

	04-03-2005 04:45									#32
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uh, but what if GoW invade...

	04-03-2005 04:47									#33
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Yes it has to be other than Stormia, unless they use Marines. I just am not sure that it was not Lego units, rather than RP.

Why hit RP, unless you are launching an all war with us and have GoW signed up?

No need to cut the UR right now. In fact no need to kick off the attack on RP, until you can hit Stomia at the same time. The save was passed on to GoW already.

I guess if we get bombers coming our way we will know for sure.

	04-03-2005 04:48									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Krill Would it be acceptable to send this to Trip?

You make it sound like I'm not watching what's going on.

I'll contact ND about this.

	04-03-2005 04:49									#35
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Thanks Trip.

	04-03-2005 04:50									#36
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Trip, thanks

	04-03-2005 04:53									#37
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PM sent, I'll see what bischop says.

	04-03-2005 05:56									#38
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This is serious. No doubt they knew it was a provocation of us. No doubt GoW knew as well. And this comes exactly at the point where they need to send us a tech, in exchange for 500 gold... if we now declare war, they only lose 500 gold, for a very expensive tech on our side...

We need to get our diplo act together. Have some discussion about it, contact the other teams (GoW for one, however I can see them attacking RP on Estonia rather easily), and contact ND as well. Please let's take our time here, without rushing, or too much public posting. ND just started the war to end all wars.

I'm logging off, I'll try to get some comments and ideas in tomorrow evening.

DeepO

	04-03-2005 05:57									#39
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BTW, Bischop was on the ISDG team, right? If they ported the whole GWT team to ND, we are in for a ride...

DeepO

	04-03-2005 06:33									#40
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It doesn't make much sense to me. Lego was relatively worthless to us, even with the resources. It was completely indefensible, and would have taken quite a while to just break even by building RP up over there. Why not wait until RP is built up, we've already invested into it, and take a juicier target or use it to divide our forces?

If ND is just acting alone, they increase their risk that we will occupy them while GoW wins.

I think this is a case of "we can" overcoming "we should." Very shortsighted on ND's part. All it can do is help ND lose, nothing gained.

	04-03-2005 07:05									#41
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I am still not sure that is what they have done. If it is they have played these past few turns very very fast and either are masters or careless.

GoW has not taken much time either, so I wonder if they are involved?

You know how much we put into going to war. I think both the idea of taking our time and the ide that it was not a good move are correct.

	04-03-2005 08:59									#42
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I'm confused... they attacked RP? Won 7 battles? Where?

	04-03-2005 09:46									#43
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That is what we are trying to find out. They posted they had 7 tank battles won and did not say where or against whom.

They when we asked, they said it was RP. If that is correct, it could only be on Legoland. I am not so sure they know who they attacked and hope they meant Lego.

	04-03-2005 13:05									#44
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quote: It doesn't make much sense to me. Lego was relatively worthless to us, even with the resources. It was completely indefensible, and would have taken quite a while to just break even by building RP up over there. Why not wait until RP is built up, we've already invested into it, and take a juicier target or use it to divide our forces?

quote: Why hit RP, unless you are launching an all war with us and have GoW signed up?

quote: We need to get our diplo act together. Have some discussion about it, contact the other teams (GoW for one, however I can see them attacking RP on Estonia rather easily)

Sums up my view pretty well... reckon Gow will stop at the gates of Elipolis

	04-03-2005 14:22									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson It doesn't make much sense to me. Lego was relatively worthless to us, even with the resources. It was completely indefensible, and would have taken quite a while to just break even by building RP up over there.

It's not about Legoland, at least I don't think so. It's about one of two things: either they want to provoke us, at a time where a war would gain them (we don't get rocketry, which we should), and by luring us away. Legoland is closer to ND than it is to us, which means they can replace forces there without sacrificing their homeland security. We'll have problems with that.

The other reason is also very plausible. They will build the UN in 2(?) turns. Lego is at the brink of getting destroyed, but would vote for ND (assuming here). Vox votes for them. Which means that if RP is gone, they get 3 out of 5 votes. It would be an oversight of them to assume we would let that happen, but makes the urgency of all this plausible: Lego asked to retire from the game so there is very little time left for a diplo victory.

quote: Why not wait until RP is built up, we've already invested into it, and take a juicier target or use it to divide our forces?

I agree with you... the only reason I can see is that now it doesn't cost them anything either. With 7 tanks, they've got 7 cities. If MIs were protecting these cities, they would need a lot more tanks. Plus, they can assume that part of the RP forces are at sea, in between Legoland and Estonia.

DeepO

	04-03-2005 15:18									#46
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It may be an idea to dial up MZ and find out if he (I mean GoW) support this grab by ND.

	04-03-2005 15:20									#47
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Unfortunately, I see a couple of GoW diehards also posting. No so much just MZ.

Question. How close are we to being able to gut ND?

About this time I am less concerned about winning and more concerned with mounting their heads on the mantle next to Vox.

	04-03-2005 15:37									#48
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ND was average to us, but with a lot of unupgraded infs. Us attacking them first is not really an option, this is not Lego. At least, we can't invade them alone. If they invade us, we do have a good chance: by landing we might lose our own territory but we would certainly hurt them to the point where GoW can finish them off.

As to involvement of GoW: they simply have to know about it, and are either supporting it themselves (i.e. they could invade Estonia), or approved.

But I agree we need to talk with GoW. And with RP. And with ND. And possibly with Lego/Vox as well: if Lego really asks for retirement, the UN option is a lot more difficult for ND.

DeepO

	04-03-2005 16:31									#49
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Messages sent to GoW and ND. Dunno what to say to Lego or Vox atm other than a blunt "are you guys voting for ND?"

	04-03-2005 16:54									#50
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I don't think the UN is an issue. We will build the UN first if Lego is still in the game, at least if things stay as they are. Not sure if ND could beat us by mining everything around Borcem.

	04-03-2005 23:22									#51
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Maybe that is why they felt they needed to hit RP. They know we can build the UN and they are worried that we have RP and Vox votes?

Because hitting RP now is just sensless. Even if you have GoW on your side, why not wait a bit longer to build more troops? I guess they were worried we would have nukes soon, but still a few more turns with GoW and ND making troops would make them stronger.

	04-03-2005 23:23									#52
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Aeson, you may be right about the UN, but does ND know this as well? I wouldn't dismiss it too easily, they might think they're in front.

You make a good point that if Lego is still in the game, we need to build the UN. And, as we won't win ourselves by diplo, that is a large cost, better spent on something else (i.e. the Internet, as we won't have time to build much research buildings anyway). So, the question becomes: how can we make sure that Lego is out of the game asap?

Is it an option to start asking them whether their resignation was official? If so, it wouldn't be hard for them (well, for Zargon, as he is Lego) to accept a no-voting rule too... and perhaps give us a bit more information on where their last settler is, and who can kill him. If they landed a settler in ND, we're screwed. If they landed a settler in Vox (most likely, I think), and Vox doesn't want to do the honours, we're screwed as well. So perhaps we should try to get Lego to agree not to vote for anyone if a vote would occur (we could also ask to vote for us, but I doubt they will do that )

DeepO

	05-03-2005 04:25									#53
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Well if Lego is still in the game we can't build the Internet anyways. The only build we would have is the UN.

	05-03-2005 06:51									#54
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You mean because of the mobilization? In that case, I think we need to end it for 1 turn. That's just my opinion, but if there is any future left in this game, the Internet is going to be kinder to us than the UN will ever be...

DeepO

	05-03-2005 07:06									#55
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We can delay the build if we don't want the UN. If so I'll just irrigate the tiles so we stop starving.

	05-03-2005 07:06									#56
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We should end it if we are not going to hit ND, otherwise it makes no sense to buiild a wonder.

	05-03-2005 07:39									#57
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okay, we need more opinions on the UN. And more discussion too, perhaps.

For the moment (this can change wuickly, though), my opinion is this:
1. we do not want to UN to win diplomatically. There is no chance of doing so anyway.
2. we do not want to lose by diplo win either. But as long as we keep RP alive with their one settler, nobody can win unless ND and GoW band together, or unless we are almost utterly destroyed and RP's settler is at risk
3. To be sure of this, we can talk to Lego. If they want to resign for certain, maybe hey are not interested in voting for ND anyway. But again, with RP still around, ND is not going to get a diplo win before we're gone.

So, in the long run, I see no reason to build the UN. In which case I prefer the Internet (again my question, can we build this wonder in mob?)

Other opinions? This is critical and needs to be decided before next turn arrives. Plus if any diplo spindoctoring needs to be done in the mean time, we need to get this issue gone fast.

DeepO

	05-03-2005 07:41									#58
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BTW, can you keep the starvation in the city, while still delaying it for one turn? If ND sees Tempest in the red, they will be pushed to build the UN themselves (unless they're going for Manhattan of course). After all, if we're still starving our pop, our efficiency reputation will mean that we're going to finish the wonder asap...

DeepO

	05-03-2005 07:44									#59
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quote: That's just my opinion, but if there is any future left in this game, the Internet is going to be kinder to us than the UN will ever be...

	06-03-2005 19:45									#60
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Just a notice, but Voxs' Uranium depleted, and moved so that it is noow 99 of Memory Blocks, which is where Castlea used to be...