01-03-2005 23:36									#1
	Has anyone ever reverted back to despotism to pop-rush hospitals or factories? Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I was just wondering about this strategy I saw someone post it in one of the archives. If you have a religious civ, is this possible? Also, I don't ever pop-rush anything in depotism (probably should). Do you get the extra production only the first time you use a pop-rush, or is it for the first time in each city?

	02-03-2005 00:23									#2
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I have not tried to calculate it, but I doubt it coudl be done and I know it would be crazy. You would have no larger than size 12 and need a lot of shields for a hospital or a factory.

If you could do it, you would be down to a small pop that could not get much done for a long time. I am not sure I would even want a hospital in most cities.

	02-03-2005 00:34									#3
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I really doubt wether it is worth it at that point.

	02-03-2005 00:37									#4
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Even though possible, it would be pretty useless with all the population loss, Anarchy in between, Despotism disadvanatages. Better slow down research for cash-rushing, if you feel you must have something quickly. If you still want to try pop-rushing, go for Communism. But even then, only low-production / high-food cities will be any good for this.

Vmxa, you can do pop-rushing on all buildings that can be rushed with cash. It only depends on the amount of Shields needed to finish the build, so technically can be pulled off - just with a bigger pre-build.

	02-03-2005 00:57									#5
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factory maybe, because you are making up for it with extra shields (though you lose workers able to work the tiles).

Hospitals is a waste. It's not like you can pop boom to get back up in size. You are paying maintenance for something you won't be able to use for a while.

Either way, I doubt you'd be able to do it the first turn you start production. Even for low shield items, it seems to always say you would lose too much population if you try to rush on turn 1. You'd have to wait until you are halfway through the projects before you change govs.

note, I haven't done the math. just taking an educated guess.

	02-03-2005 02:26									#6
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I tested it and it cannot be done. 160 shields for Hosp and 240 for factory. Size 12 is not going to be able to pop rush in one shot. You may be able to do it in stages.

IOW rush a lessor item and then a higher item and work your way up. I am not sure how far you can get. I hink you can get the 40 shields for the first pop and 20 for the rest.

40+20+20+20+20+20+20 = 160 and cost 7 pop, if I am doing this right. So if that is the mechanism, then you could do it.

	02-03-2005 02:58									#7
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Well, switching to Despotism would simply kill you, or at least do serious damage to your economy, so it is not an option IMO.

But for Communism, or Fascism on the offense, pop-rushing is great. In metros, you remove the useless Entertainers, that would only go back to work after the war is over (yeah, like that is going to happen ). In smaller cities, you can bring up basic infrastructure quickly. The food is usually not the problem, as long as you are fighting an AI - they over-irrigate anyway, which brings an enormous surpulus together with Rails. Trust me, you will sooner run into happiness problems, especially if you have too few units for MP duty. And if there is enough food, then pop-rushing that Hospital might be the thing to do. In rare cases, but still.

Vmxa, I did say "pre-build", did I not? It is still called rushing if you only need to produce 40 Shields out of 160, right?

	02-03-2005 03:24									#8
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Assuming you have a fully patched vanilla, or any version of PTW, or Conquests, it is a flat 20 shields per population.

What your refering to was a bug in some versions in vanilla.

	02-03-2005 04:28									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Modo44 Vmxa, I did say "pre-build", did I not? It is still called rushing if you only need to produce 40 Shields out of 160, right?

I am just ignoring "prebuilds" as I don't think that is the question. I mean we are not switching to pop rush if we have good prebuilds for those structures are we?

If I have 120 shields already, I am a decent shield producing city and do not need to pop rush, especially if it also requires a new government.

So I just dismissed that aspect as not being germaine. You are free to mention it if you want.

	02-03-2005 04:44									#10
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Building 40 Shields, you get 120 from the population. Good enough to call it a rush, and still cheap enough for corrupt orlow-production cities.

	02-03-2005 14:13									#11
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What about the extra unhappiness pop-rushing creates, was it not 1 unhappy citizen for every citizen you lose to pop-rush?

If enough MilPolice/lux/happiness buildings are present this is non existent though.

	02-03-2005 14:58									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Major Guz What about the extra unhappiness pop-rushing creates, was it not 1 unhappy citizen for every citizen you lose to pop-rush? If enough MilPolice/lux/happiness buildings are present this is non existent though.

If you have luxuries, Markets, some MPs, then you will do fine. You should be able to rush most of the basic infrastructure and still be good. If you plan to add culture as well, MPs are required. This gets worse on higher difficulty levels, where you have to choose what you need quickly.

	02-03-2005 19:41									#13
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Wow... I never considered doing this... it doesn't make sense of the face of it...or by the numbers.

	02-03-2005 21:05									#14
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I do often rush one or two pop before going to republic, especially with cities with a full food box unable to grow.

	03-03-2005 20:40									#15
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I pop-rushed Temples like they were going out of style when there was the bug giving 40 shields for the first citizen in a rush.

Only rush a few now.

	03-03-2005 21:49									#16
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn I pop-rushed Temples like they were going out of style

They were