18-03-2005 02:32									#91
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Locally: Brumbies 22 -d- Stormers 19 Another gutsy effort from a seriously undermanned Brumbies outfit. They lost yet another backrower on the day of the game, taking the field with #s 11, 12, 14 and 15 with about six caps between them, and a bench loaded with debutants. The key to these gutsy, undermanned wins has been leadership. The likes of Larkham and Finegan are playing outstanding rugby themselves while both guiding and protecting the youngsters. Clyde Rathbone, typically, was a Bok target. Thug centre DeWet Barry reached new lows. Warned for a high tackle, yellow-carded for a trip off the ball, he clobbered Rathbone with a high tackle off the ball that removed Rathbone from the field with a throat injury. Barry seems to have got away with it.

Didn't get to see that one. Fox Sports World has changed its name to Fox Soccer Channel and is only showing one S12 game a week! More proof that the US is sinking into barbarism...

So far I've seen Brumbies v Crusaders, Crusaders v Chiefs, and Chiefs v Blues; in all of which the team I wanted to win lost.

Next week I'll get to see Blues v Crusaders. Hopefully the lads can come back from the loss to the Chiefs. At least it'll be a home match for them..

The Hurricanes are doing rather well so far. All their games have been away and they've managed to win them all.

This "racial slur" business is a bit pathetic isn't it? Did Booi go home and cry to Mummy? awww...time to grow up. I'm not condoning whatever was said, but part of being a secure, emotionally strong person means being able to rise above these sorts of things without making an issue of it. "Look at me everyone! Someone called me a bad word!"

By the way...I have ot avoid this thread most of the time because I have to wait till Tuesday night to see the S12 game that was played a few days ago.

	18-03-2005 14:23									#92
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But we don’t list that many S12 results – it’s fairly safe to pop by.

quote: Thus far, Ulster have declined to comment.

Well in all honesty it is not their business. I think it unlikely they will withdraw the contract because of it. We all make mistakes – if only he had kept colour out of it.

Such things are unacceptable of course – but Caligastia has a good point. We live in a world where massive over reaction occurs to such things. RSA does not have a good history with how it treats it own coloured players (remember the incidents leading up to the RWC) so to complain about an Australian making a racist comment seems a little bizarre.

The problem is that had this player made a racial comment about Plank (i.e. that his racial heritage owes much to Tolkien’s Orcs) absolutely nothing would have come from it.

As for the two players still pursuing Grey – are they insane? Do they think Plank confessed to cover a team mate? What motive would they rationalise for his so doing? Weird!

quote: The jersey! The jersey!

But I don’t automatically assuming all those in wattle are Aussies!! Mind you that is because often they are not.

quote: I haven't seen much to suggest they can beat a confident Wales.

Well traditionally that is when Ireland are most dangerous – they were in poor fettle right before beating Australia back in 2002. They are due a good game and this is the stage for it. That they would break Welsh hearts would simply be the icing on the cake. The bottom line is if they find form they are in a different class to Wales still – next year may be different as this Irish side is where England were in 2003 – lots of 30 plus year olds in the 22.

Wales have a younger squad and if they keep improving may become quite special – but right now they are going to be lucky Slammers rather than comprehensive ones.

And I hope they do for one reason – Gavin Henson. Not since the early days of AH have I seen such an out of control ego. One good game against England does not make a career – and talk of him making the Lions side scares me ******** when Tindall is far more suited to face the All Blacks. Henson has had three quiet games since doing well against England – he needs to step up to the plate again.

Silver and Gold Boots, Salon crafted and coloured hair and bottled orange tan. He might be a good player but he needs to lose all this crap before he will gain my respect long term. But then the vain Girlies bother me at the best of times.

quote: I think so.

I actually don’t really buy that player power idea. I think there is something more fundamentally wrong at the club above the level of Coaches and Players – at committee level. If Wells was encouraged to go I suspect it was from above (Wells for example has never criticised Deano following that debacle – the two were good friends – and that will not have sat well).

I suspect you are right in that he thought the timing best from every point of view.

quote: Your coach and the ex-interim skipper with a broken thumb would do well to watch tapes of the matches to see leadership at work.

I fear that neither would understand the lesson.

quote: They are, on the whole, a very welcoming mob. I'm counting on it anyway!

You’ll be fine – if they coped with us how much better will it be for a (very) light drinker with a decent grasp of the lingo?

quote: Suffice it to say, I prefer the Italian way.

Worrying signs that this may change though – all the late opening bars in Genoa were geared to youngsters and students and were the most English in nature being focused purely on the drinking.

I too like the Italian way – but on tour I need my late drinking pit stops as well.

quote: You travel with heathens!

I call them the “old farts” and the name suits them well.

The only whites we had were house whites when we ate. I have both names stored in my phone and plan to hunt down a bottle or two of either for Easter.

quote: I wondered how these accidents don't happen more often with the brute force energy that's expended.

I’m just grateful they are so infrequent. I saw one serious neck injury in my time when a hooker was driven into the ground with considerable force when a scrum collapsed – not pleasant but thankfully he recovered (chose to retire though – and who can blame him!).

Jaco Van Der Westhuyzen chose to stay in Japan. Rumour on this is that Tigers had refused to guarantee him the ten shirt saying he would rotate with Goode. Good call in that case – it never works when you let players insist on guaranteed starts?

In better news Daryl Gibson has signed another two year deal for us – after a slow start Daryl has really done a job for us over the last 18 months.

Strangely we are also loaning two young forwards to NZ for six months – James Hamilton and Luke Abraham. Both have first team time this year and Hamilton is a 22 year old lock – comparisons are being made to another tigers lock who spent a loan spell in NZ and came back to make quite a mark.

Abraham is a loose forward converted to hooker but covering our back row crisis right now- and scored our winning try as recently as last Friday.

	18-03-2005 20:36									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Havak But we don’t list that many S12 results – it’s fairly safe to pop by.

I could post my TV schedule, but sometimes I don't get to see the game until a couple of days after they show it. And Finbar would have to swear on his dog's life not to post any spoilers.

quote: Such things are unacceptable of course – but Caligastia has a good point. We live in a world where massive over reaction occurs to such things.

I guess some people never heard of "mauls and tackles may break my bones but names can never hurt me."

quote: The problem is that had this player made a racial comment about Plank (i.e. that his racial heritage owes much to Tolkien’s Orcs) absolutely nothing would have come from it.

That is one of the major problems with making a fuss over racial slurs - standards will never be applied equally. Not only that, but it creates an environment in which false accusations may become a tempting option. All it really is is just bickering over name calling. If players want to say nasty things to one another then that's their problem. Getting other people involved is just a waste of time.

	20-03-2005 00:52									#94
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Italy 13 - 56 France.
A good match from the French, except for two periods, one when they got countered and suffered an 80 metres try, and the other when Dominici went out. I hope the Italian prop will get fired for at least 1 year. For those who didn't see it, he just punched Dominici in the fact when another Italian was also late-tackling him. Grrr. Dominici had been excellent and led to 2 tries in the first 20 minutes of the match. Spreadbury, who was touch judge, also showed his utter lack of skill when saying Heymans went in touch when he obviously didn't, thus leading to a refused try. Poor Heymans, he's been very good and his try hasn't been allowed. The Italians really need a backline and to stop their foul play.

Wales 32 - 20 Ireland.
Sorry Havak. The Irish managed to stuff their match in a way that's truly bizarre. They had much better conquest in the early game and didn't manage to do anything with it. Then O'Gara started playing badly, not using his kicks as efficiently as he usually does. Humphreys replaced him and impulsed a little good to the team, but it was too late. I don't know what the Irish had, but they didn't play up to their value.
About Henson, I agree the guy is both good and overrated. I think Shanklin is the better Welsh center for instance. Haven't seen Tindall for a while, but I think he's better too on past performances. Henson defends well and can kick from far. So does Traille in France and it was only chance if he played today. A bit of a pity since Traille was so promising, but then we have Jauzion, Baby, Marty, Grandclaude... I think we can be happy that we found a few very good young centers here.

I guess the English game is played now, but for some reason, the TV here decided to show the game only this night, at around 2 AM. Anyone has an idea why such a great match is postponed to so late?

	20-03-2005 01:16									#95
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Because it's a play-off for 4th place and nobody cares much.

	20-03-2005 01:35									#96
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quote: Because it's a play-off for 4th place and nobody cares much.

Of course, that was just a bait for Havak to try and find a spurious reason why someone who is neither English nor Scot would want to look at the game. Why I'm considering staying awake till 2 AM to watch it, even though I am utterly exhausted (playing on friday evenings means you eat and drink till quite late and don't sleep much) amazes me. Maybe I don't like sleeping.

	20-03-2005 08:11									#97
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quote: Originally posted by LDiCesare Italy 13 - 56 France. A good match from the French, except for two periods, one when they got countered and suffered an 80 metres try, and the other when Dominici went out. I hope the Italian prop will get fired for at least 1 year. For those who didn't see it, he just punched Dominici in the fact when another Italian was also late-tackling him. Grrr. Dominici had been excellent and led to 2 tries in the first 20 minutes of the match. Spreadbury, who was touch judge, also showed his utter lack of skill when saying Heymans went in touch when he obviously didn't, thus leading to a refused try. Poor Heymans, he's been very good and his try hasn't been allowed. The Italians really need a backline and to stop their foul play.

Gee, you French are a perverse lot. Needing to win by 41 (or whatever it was), you take two kicks for goal in the second half for a miserable three points each! You got to the 41 (or whatever it was) in the end, but it was a close go.

I agree about the Dominici incident. I didn't see a replay, but it looked an Italian hit him with a swinging high arm from behind with another Italian coming from the front.

quote: Wales 32 - 20 Ireland. Sorry Havak. The Irish managed to stuff their match in a way that's truly bizarre. They had much better conquest in the early game and didn't manage to do anything with it. Then O'Gara started playing badly, not using his kicks as efficiently as he usually does. Humphreys replaced him and impulsed a little good to the team, but it was too late. I don't know what the Irish had, but they didn't play up to their value.

Yes, sorry Havak. I was right. Apart from ten minutes in the second half, the Irish played up to the same crap standard they have for the whole tournament. They're not a better team than Wales. They're undisciplined and they rely far too much on O'Driscoll (whose leadership, I have to say, is lacking). I have no idea what O'Gara thought he was doing for much of the match. Wales deserved the win. They're a very promising rugby team.

As an unbiased observer, having watched all but a couple of the 6N matches, I thought France and Wales were the picks by a margin. Even though Wales beat France, I'd rank the French ahead because they can do everything Wales do just as well, and much more besides. Of course, France can also lose concentration, or switch off, or whatever it is that happens.

quote: About Henson, I agree the guy is both good and overrated. I think Shanklin is the better Welsh center for instance.

I think Henson is very talented, but one of those flashy players who will be devastating in one match and go missing in another. Shanklin works harder and will probably, through persistence, end up more productive and effective.

quote: So does Traille in France and it was only chance if he played today. A bit of a pity since Traille was so promising, but then we have Jauzion, Baby, Marty, Grandclaude... I think we can be happy that we found a few very good young centers here.

I think you've found some very exciting young talent. That young black flanker who was named man of the match looks the goods, too.

quote: I guess the English game is played now, but for some reason, the TV here decided to show the game only this night, at around 2 AM. Anyone has an idea why such a great match is postponed to so late?

It wasn't shown live here either. There was a replay 8 hours later. I assume because, with the competition already decided, the telecasters didn't think it was important enough.

	20-03-2005 08:23									#98
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quote: Originally posted by LDiCesare Of course, that was just a bait for Havak to try and find a spurious reason why someone who is neither English nor Scot would want to look at the game. Why I'm considering staying awake till 2 AM to watch it, even though I am utterly exhausted (playing on friday evenings means you eat and drink till quite late and don't sleep much) amazes me. Maybe I don't like sleeping.

Luckily the replay was in the late morning here. I thought it was entertaining, particularly in the second half when it seemed to turn into a Sevens match. England won, as they were always going to, but against the sort of defence Scotland mounted in the first half, I could have outscored Noon. Scotland's effort was a re-run of their game last week against Wales. Utterly abysmal defence and crap rugby in general in the first half, followed by a second half of (by comparison) some strong defence and (by comparison) strong attacking rugby. What's wrong with this Scotland team? They're obviously talent-challenged in some areas, but you have to wonder about Matt Williams' coaching.

And who was the commentator talking up the Scotland full back as Lions material? He's obviously a very damaging attacking runner but his defence is abysmal. Witness his pathetic attempt to stop one of Noon's tries.

Being a replay, there was no post-match information. England's injury situation wasn't looking too good.

	20-03-2005 08:26									#99
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I thought we played some very good rugby in patches in the early games and we've capped it off today
Andy Robinson,
England coach

	20-03-2005 14:48									#100
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quote: I agree about the Dominici incident. I didn't see a replay, but it looked an Italian hit him with a swinging high arm from behind with another Italian coming from the front.

Exactly.

quote: That young black flanker who was named man of the match looks the goods,

That's Yannick Nyanga. He's really good indeed. He's still young but has very thorough skills,with good vista, great skills in lineouts, solid at keeping the ball, and running everywhere.
I didn't stay up to watch the England match. From what I read, they did the same as against Wales. That's not surprising. Robinson's comments aren't surprising either.

	21-03-2005 02:44									#101
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BEST. PARTY. EVER!!!

I was there! Well, in the park in front of city hall anyway - the pic is a pic of the big screen in city hall showing the crowd in the park!

Whatever people say about the Welsh side, they are a young team on the upswing - it was only 2 years ago they 'won' the wooden spoon and just at the end of last year they almost beat South Africa and New Zealand. So watch this space...

What will happen however is that teams will figure out more effective strategies to playing Wales and that bugbear of expectation might cause the team to implode - people are already talking of Wales winning the next Rugby World Cup here...

Rugby is to Wales what Empire is to England...

Anyway, Wales won the 6N and nothing can take that from us, so

	21-03-2005 02:45									#102
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PIC

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	21-03-2005 04:01									#103
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quote: Originally posted by MOBIUS people are already talking of Wales winning the next Rugby World Cup here...

Bollocks. No chance. The next world cup is going to the Southern hemisphere and looking at the current AB side, I wouldn't like to bet against them lifting the trophy again.

	21-03-2005 04:07									#104
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quote: Originally posted by spartak Bollocks. No chance. The next world cup is going to the Southern hemisphere and looking at the current AB side, I wouldn't like to bet against them lifting the trophy again.

Exactly! That's how much expectation this team will suddenly be saddled with - anything other than crushing victories will now be heavily criticised by the armchair general old boyos.

Just like the tory blue rinse brigade who still think that the UK has an empire...

	21-03-2005 04:50									#105
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Who knows where the rugby world will be in two years time? With the talented youth on display in the French side, they should be very hard to beat at home. I say should, because sometimes they can be their own worst enemies.

Wales? Very promising. Great spirit. They're going to need more to their game than running wizardry in broken play. Other teams will work them out? It happened more than once in this tournament. It's not rocket science. Deprive them of the ball. Don't deliver it to their back three with aimless kicks. Trouble is, no opposition team was able to do it consistently enough. I suspect one has to play the current Wales team the same way one has played the All Blacks of recent times - get into their faces, manage possession via strong discipline, and, most importantly, DON'T give the ball to their back three on a platter.

England? Speed and skill out wide, but getting the ball out there is a laborious, predictable process. They need a strong, creative playmaker and a creative, aggressive midfield to service the skills out wide. The current lot are too timid and unsophisticated.

Ireland? Apparently retirement will take its toll on the current team. They were my biggest disappointment of the tournament. Undisciplined, sloppy, relying far too much on O'Driscoll. I don't know how good or how strong their juniors are.

Scotland? Proved they can play some strong half-hours of rugby so they're not entirely hopeless. Exactly why they can't play more than than half an hour of strong rugby is beyond me.

Italy? A strong pack does not a team make. Their recruiting officer should be on the first plane to South Rome/North Auckland for some more talented stranieri.

Last edited by finbar on 21-03-2005 at 04:55

	21-03-2005 05:00									#106
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I think its really hard to get a good sense of English strength at the mo because of the serious number of walking (and/or hobbling) wounded. What we did find out this tournement is that the strength in depth isn't as strong or as deep as we thought.

How that ****er worsely gets a game I have absolutely no idea. Once we get Wilco and Hill back we will have a better idea of how we stand these days. A back row of Hill, Correy and Moodey isn't a totally depressing idea and given that the current centres are at best 4th or 5th choice doesn't exactly suggest that a full strength side wouldn't perform well.

I'm mystified by Robinson as a coach and Robinson the full back had a wrteched series and I wonder whether Balshaw might be a better long term choice with billy wizz relegated to the bench.

	21-03-2005 06:05									#107
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I agree. The injury toll makes it hard to gauge the big picture. I was looking at what's currently on offer. Wilkinson would obviously solve a big weakness - Hodgson isn't commanding or inventive enough - but, sadly, who knows what Wilkinson's long-term future is? And how old is Richard Hill these days? 33? He's a class above the incumbent, but I can't imagine him lining up in 2007.

I also refuse to believe that Barkley is the best #12 on offer. He seems to be there for his kicking alone. Okay, it's nice to have a #12 who can kick. The Wallabies have played Flatley and Giteau at #12 for that reason, but they're also immensely creative contributors in their own right. Coach Robinson has obviously earmarked Noon for the long haul. He's young, he appears - to me - competent. He scored a hat trick on Saturday, at least one of which would have been stopped 25 metres from the line by half-competent defence. Our Chris Latham scored five tries against Namibia. Everything's relative. Anyway, my theory remains that an aggressive, inventive midfield - and there are a few of them around - will snuff out the incumbent England lot.

You're mystified by coach Robinson? Join the club. He seems to have a cast-iron policy of replacing Ellis with Dawson with about 15 minutes to go. Ellis isn't yet reaching great heights on the field, but surely he's the future. Why else is he starting? Why isn't he being given as much game time as possible? Why replace him with someone close to retirement in a game that is well and truly won?

Coach Robinson - not that I know him - seems to be a stolid, stubborn individual lacking in original thought. And it seems to me that the team is suffering his imprint.

	21-03-2005 12:27									#108
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Yeah - that sounds about right!

	21-03-2005 14:19									#109
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quote: Of course, that was just a bait for Havak to try and find a spurious reason why someone who is neither English nor Scot would want to look at the game

It’s the oldest fixture in the world game and means an awful lot to both the English and the Scots.

Plus it was played between two teams who have beaten tri-nations opposition this century. I can’t even remember the last time Wales beat tri-nations opposition.

Okay lets be fair here – Wales did a great job on Ireland and thoroughly deserved the Slam this year. And it hurts saying that. Like you wouldn’t believe. Not that this alters the fact I am in a living nightmare now where Wales have won the slam and gone above England in the world rankings. I guess that shows how silly the rankings really are (Finbar take a bow) given my previous point that Wales have done so without ever beating a tri-nations side.

Still Wales are up there now to be shot at – and they many find being the side everyone wants to beat next year will bring it’s own problems.

To see Ruddock talking of ten Welsh starters for the Lions is ludicrous – Clive is far too smart for that. He wants to beat NZ not go down in a glorious blaze of tiny wingers being trampled by North Aucklanders.

I know the Welsh players I would take – Sidoli, Cockbain (this Aussie-Taff will p*** the Kiwis off at least), Davies, Williams, Owen, Peel, Jones and Thomas (as mid week skipper not a test player) but by no means all of them are test starters – Owen will lose out to Corry for starters and Sidoli to O’Connell or Kay. Peel and Jones look like test starters unless Wilko is fit – and Williams has a good chance given the lack of genuine openside competition. Williams certainly bossed O’Connor this weekend.

But golden boots? Doesn’t do enough in a game for me. I think Tindall will keep him on the bench and partner BO’D.

quote: Wales deserved the win. They're a very promising rugby team.

I would say more a team with some very promising individuals. They are a fairly good side surrounded by teams out of form. If you don’t believe me watch the autumn games when they face the SH tourists. Wales will not have arrived for me until they take a big SH scalp. Beating a dire (and Corryless) England side by one point did not make them a great team. Though the win against France hinted more strongly that they could be one in time.

quote: Shanklin works harder and will probably, through persistence, end up more productive and effective.

And ironically was the better player again Saturday – but has no chance whatsoever of a Lions start as he plays at outside centre where BO’D is a shoe in.

quote: That young black flanker who was named man of the match looks the goods, too.

A super player – the sudden wealth of French centres and loose forwards is a bit worrying.

quote: I assume because, with the competition already decided, the telecasters didn't think it was important enough.

That’s like saying a Bledisloe deciding game does not matter. The Calcutta cup matters – it is all we have to keep the replica Webb Ellis company now.

quote: England's injury situation wasn't looking too good.

TIGERS injury situation was not looking too good you mean?

Rowntree picked up a thigh injury before kick off (!), Kay did his ankle and Moody hurt his hip! Added to that Smith got hammered on the head at a ruck late on. No official word on severity but Kay reportedly badly damaged his ligaments meaning he probably will not make the Leinster game on 2nd April.

quote: I thought we played some very good rugby in patches in the early games and we've capped it off today

aka “Ships, what ships?”

quote: people are already talking of Wales winning the next Rugby World Cup here...

And on that day Satan will go to work in a snow plough!!!

But for now enjoy – a thoroughly deserved Slam by the taffs!!

quote: Coach Robinson - not that I know him - seems to be a stolid, stubborn individual lacking in original thought. And it seems to me that the team is suffering his imprint.

Yes – that pretty much sums him (and them) up.

But with Wells heading the Academy from June there is hope for a positive change soon.

	21-03-2005 17:06									#110
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quote: Originally posted by Havak I know the Welsh players I would take – Sidoli, Cockbain (this Aussie-Taff will p*** the Kiwis off at least), Davies, Williams, Owen, Peel, Jones and Thomas (as mid week skipper not a test player) but by no means all of them are test starters – Owen will lose out to Corry for starters and Sidoli to O’Connell or Kay. Peel and Jones look like test starters unless Wilko is fit – and Williams has a good chance given the lack of genuine openside competition. Williams certainly bossed O’Connor this weekend. But golden boots? Doesn’t do enough in a game for me. I think Tindall will keep him on the bench and partner BO’D.

I've been surprised by Cockbain's improvement. He was only a trier back in the World Cup. I suppose that's confidence for you.

Just out of interest, pick me your Lions 22.

quote: I would say more a team with some very promising individuals. They are a fairly good side surrounded by teams out of form. If you don’t believe me watch the autumn games when they face the SH tourists. Wales will not have arrived for me until they take a big SH scalp. Beating a dire (and Corryless) England side by one point did not make them a great team. Though the win against France hinted more strongly that they could be one in time.

No one (apart from the Welsh, and they can be forgiven the hysteria) is calling them a great team. I still call them a very promising team. Yes, the effort against France revealed guts, amongst other things, and even if they only beat England by a point, they still came back to win. And, yes, they won in a pretty ordinary year. And, regardless of the end result, I think the French are a better team. I wonder whether we play the Welsh later in the year.

quote: TIGERS injury situation was not looking too good you mean?

So you must have been relieved to see Harry Ellis yet again replaced by Dawson at the scheduled, pre-ordained, utterly pointless 60 (or thereabouts) minute mark?

quote: But with Wells heading the Academy from June there is hope for a positive change soon.

Not before November. Cross your fingers for a couple of beltings from the SH teams.

	21-03-2005 18:00									#111
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I can;t - it would run contrary to all my natural instincts.

I'm working on the other bits (and my Lions squad may surprise you) but can confirm for you that your Spring tour sees you face England, Ireland and Wales on consecutive weekends. Should be properly warmed up for the taffs.

	21-03-2005 21:12									#112
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Lions XXII

1 Jenkins (Wales)
2 Byrne (Ireland)
3 Stevens/White (England)
4 O’Connell (Ireland)
5 Kay (England)
6 Moody (England)
7 Williams (Wales)
8 Corry (England)
9 Peel (Wales)
10 Jones (Wales)
11 S. Lamont (Scotland)
12 Tindall (England)
13 O’Driscoll (Ireland)
14 Lewsey (England)
15 Murphy (Ireland)
16 Davies (Wales)
17 Rowntree (England)
18 Sidoli (Wales)
19 Taylor/White (Scotland)
20 Noon/Smith (England)
21 Cueto/Shane Williams (England/Wales)
22 Robinson/Morgan (England/Wales)

Less Irish than I would have picked eight weeks ago – far more Welsh. But the core has to be English still for me. Only one Scottish starter.

Keep in mind reviewing it that Clive will be obliged to field at least one player from every country in the starting XV – a political reality forced on him. So whilst I really don’t personally think that Shane Williams is suited to face NZ - on form he has to make the 22 I think. Lamont is bigger and stronger – plus I know him from club days so that and the fact there has to be a Scot in the XV sealed it.

And my Lions selection is far more realistic than Planet Rugby's pathetic team of the tournament (as written by their resident Aussie journo?)

	22-03-2005 09:33									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Havak I can;t - it would run contrary to all my natural instincts. I'm working on the other bits (and my Lions squad may surprise you) but can confirm for you that your Spring tour sees you face England, Ireland and Wales on consecutive weekends. Should be properly warmed up for the taffs.

I think we can cope with them. Suffocate them in the same way the All Blacks can be suffocated. But I'm dying to see their little winger tackling Tuquiri.

	22-03-2005 09:50									#114
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quote: Originally posted by Havak And my Lions selection is far more realistic than Planet Rugby's pathetic team of the tournament (as written by their resident Aussie journo?)

Yes, PR's team is an eccentric selection, all right. You picked Poms? What a surprise. He's taking 44, isn't he? As one big pool? Or separate, designated mid-week and Test pools? Noon won't get a look in, Cueto could. I think he has improved. He has tried hard and gone looking for the ball, but there are plenty of wingers of about equal standard available. Interesting point about Shane Williams' size, but I think Clive would start him. Lamont might be bigger and stronger but he doesn't have the potency. I'd replace him with White. Or Taylor. I liked Taylor the more I saw of him. Where can he play? I don't think Kay has done enough to start. Or Moody, really. Tindall's an even bigger stretch, I suspect, given his time off. But, I suppose it depends how much insurance Clive wants.

Regardless, the team certainly doesn't offer the quality of the mob who came out here.

	22-03-2005 13:50									#115
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No it is not the quality of the last Lions squad – how could it be? The English players I picked are mainly proven winners who have turned over SH sides. It wasn’t blind prejudice, just red rose coloured

Yes the squad is 44. Though Clive has stated all 44 are available for test selection – no “Dai’s driftwood” divisions this time. And I think you will be surprised how many English travel despite the 6N. God forbid he tries to rely on the Welsh – he could kill their confidence ahead of the autumn tests for starters.

Kay has been by far the best lock for England this tournament and will be there or there abouts for the test sides. Moody will start if fit – there is simply no one else as potent at the restart and that is a phase of play where we need to attack NZ.

He may take Shanklin instead of Noon or Smith. But to reiterate ad nauseum this Welsh side is not that good that it should dominate Lions selection. We want to beat NZ not feed them sacrificial lambs.

Replace Lamont with White or Taylor? You mean to get a Scot in the side given they are loose forwards and him a winger. They have a chance certainly but it’s hard to see beyond Williams-Corry-Moody to be honest.

Tindall is a gamble I guess – but then so is Henson. How will the pretty boy react the first time Umaga cuts him up rough? There is something deeply disturbing about a rugby player who uses bottled tan and shaves his leg – truly a ‘girlie’ that one.

*edit* Check out Zinzan's Lions picks - I think he is carrying a torch for Dayglo.

Bizarre talk of Henson as Fly half if Greenwood is fit too!

*another edit*

I see Ali Williams disciplinary record has taken another turn for the worse? Interesting that he can stand on Josh Lewsey and just get a finger wagging but as soon as he steps on someone needed for the ABs (McCaw) the book is thrown at him? Bitter Pom? You bet!

Last edited by Havak on 22-03-2005 at 16:59

	22-03-2005 18:18									#116
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quote: Originally posted by Havak No it is not the quality of the last Lions squad – how could it be? The English players I picked are mainly proven winners who have turned over SH sides. It wasn’t blind prejudice, just red rose coloured

I knew why you picked them. They've been there. Fair enough. Clive might go the same way.

quote: He may take Shanklin instead of Noon or Smith. But to reiterate ad nauseum this Welsh side is not that good that it should dominate Lions selection. We want to beat NZ not feed them sacrificial lambs.

No one here - apart from MOBIUS, and he was p*ssed - thinks Wales is a great team. I think the French are better. But I'd take Shanklin a mile in front of Noon. And Smith, for reasons we've canvassed many times, remains untested, so I'd have to put Shanklin in front of him too. I like Shanklin. He's a goer.

quote: Replace Lamont with White or Taylor? You mean to get a Scot in the side given they are loose forwards and him a winger. They have a chance certainly but it’s hard to see beyond Williams-Corry-Moody to be honest.

Yes, to get a Scot in the side. Because I think Shane Williams will start. Unless, of course, Lamont takes the other wing. Which I wouldn't like to see. The only other Scot candidate would be the full back and he would leak tries wholesale. If Noon can wander past him, Lord knows what the ABs will do to him.

quote: *edit* Check out Zinzan's Lions picks - I think he is carrying a torch for Dayglo. Bizarre talk of Henson as Fly half if Greenwood is fit too!

Quite bizarre. As per usual. He also picks the Scotland full back!

quote: I see Ali Williams disciplinary record has taken another turn for the worse? Interesting that he can stand on Josh Lewsey and just get a finger wagging but as soon as he steps on someone needed for the ABs (McCaw) the book is thrown at him? Bitter Pom? You bet!

I only saw the end of that match. I'll have to check out the report.

EDIT. Instead, I found a report that Deano is off to Harlequins, leaving a plethora of unhappiness behind in France.

	22-03-2005 19:47									#117
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Yes poor Deano. He apparently suggested his players should work beyond 35 hours per week and nearly provoked a general strike in France at the mere thought of it.

Quins is a strange choice for Dean – though it does place him handily to boot Robinson out the door at Twickers (the Stoop is literally just over the road from HQ). It also means we don’t really have to worry about a happy return to Welford Road for him – we do pretty well against Quins at home.

I am really interested to see what Clive does with the squad – I suspect the temptation to take ‘his boys’ will be immense outside of the other factors we have mooted.

quote: I like Shanklin. He's a goer

He’s a trier – and in the form of his life. He does have a tendency to blow hot and cold though. If he goes AWOL in a Lions test I will personally kick his ****.

quote: If Noon can wander past him, Lord knows what the ABs will do to him.

Walk over him. Patterson once thought he was a fly half, then became a wing and from there moved to fullback. Wing is the only position he seems at all suited for – and they are expected to work much harder physically these days than I think he is suited to.

I suspect you are right – Shane Williams will start. I fear the worst from it – he looks like a toy player alongside those big AB wings.

quote: Quite bizarre. As per usual. He also picks the Scotland full back!

And both Irish second rows – not sure O’Kelly has done enough for that?

	23-03-2005 04:41									#118
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The locks, like a few other positions, are pretty much a raffle as far as I can see. There are few absolute standouts screaming "pick me!".

If Clive does start S. Williams, there will need to be some very powerful defenders able to help him out.

	23-03-2005 13:26									#119
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That is what worries me - who would that be?

*edit* On reflection I think that would require either Lewsey or Thomas - both renowned tacklers - to get the fullback berth.

But should we enter battle with the ABs playing a winger with known defensive weaknesses?

Incidentally is the AB lock Robinson fit and well? I think the worst thing for NZ would be having to play Ali Williams as it would risk them having 14 men for large parts of the test matches.

Last edited by Havak on 23-03-2005 at 15:08

	23-03-2005 15:42									#120
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He has missed the early S12 matches recovering from surgery. He's training, apparently, and due back early next month.