02-03-2005 22:23									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy I think this just shows how we need to reconcile the "libertarian rights, do-gooder" side that I once espounded with such veracity

If you're going to use big words then find out what they mean first.

	02-03-2005 22:47									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov I've seen arguments claiming animals don't suffer like humans do precisely because, while they may feel physical pain, they don't have the mental capacity to react emotionally to it and they don't have a sense of "self," just like the article says. I guess it doesn't matter to me wrt my eating habits, since I don't eat meat anyway. Well, I eat fish. But that doesn't count, because fish are stupid and don't actually feel pain like other animals do, so it's okay.

You're casting pearls before (mostly) swine.

	02-03-2005 22:48									#33
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I ate steak last night. It tasted good enough to make up for any suffering the cow went through.

	02-03-2005 23:35									#34
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whould it kill these ranchers to kill cows humanely? That's all I ask.

cows have it pretty good. They have plenty of space.

I just wish they'd give chickens more room. greedy food comanies

	02-03-2005 23:36									#35
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A sledge hammer hit to the skull isn't quick and humane?

	02-03-2005 23:38									#36
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all i know is, welfare doesnt help cows get out of the ghetto

	02-03-2005 23:53									#37
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Actually, concerns over humanely slaughtering animals date back thousands of years. Kashrut (or kosher) laws require the animal being slaughtered to be killed with a knife so sharp you can barely feel the cut. My wife plans to eventually be vegetarian, I plan to always be an omnivore - especially in bed.

	02-03-2005 23:57									#38
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quote: Originally posted by shawnmmcc Actually, concerns over humanely slaughtering animals date back thousands of years. Kashrut (or kosher) laws require the animal being slaughtered to be killed with a knife so sharp you can barely feel the cut. My wife plans to eventually be vegetarian, I plan to always be an omnivore - especially in bed.

Unless you hate oral sex, that sounds like a good combination for your wife and a bad one for you.

	02-03-2005 23:57									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Wycoff Anyone who claims that an animal can't feel pain has never been around an animal. I support keeping livestock in safe and human conditions, but I have no qualms about eating the animals. Though some people like to forget this, Humans are animals too, and we're part of the food chain. You can choose not to eat animals, I don't care. I'm not going to stop, though, because I don't think that its immoral to do so. Is it immoral for a wolf to eat a sheep?

and there have been people that claim even plants can feel pain.

I demand all vegetarians to stop eating!!

	02-03-2005 23:59									#40
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pchang - they that give will receive.

	03-03-2005 00:03									#41
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Then, strictly speaking, your wife will never be vegetarian.

	03-03-2005 00:07									#42
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Cannibal fetishists.

	03-03-2005 00:12									#43
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Meat:

	03-03-2005 00:14									#44
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Fetishes:

	03-03-2005 00:15									#45
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Vegetarian, not vegan. Vegatarians can eat some things of animal origin. She just can't swallow....

	03-03-2005 00:17									#46
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I am already a vegetarian so this article doesn´t change anything. But I wonder if cows see me as competition for food?

	03-03-2005 00:17									#47
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quote: Originally posted by shawnmmcc Vegetarian, not vegan. Vegatarians can eat some things of animal origin. She just can't swallow....

that's no fun. . In any case vegetarians can eat cheese and dairy. So think of any "byproducts" like cheese.

	03-03-2005 00:22									#48
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quote: Originally posted by shawnmmcc Vegetarian, not vegan. Vegatarians can eat some things of animal origin. She just can't swallow....

that is the stupidest interpertation of what it means to be a vegetarian ever.

	03-03-2005 00:23									#49
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It depends on what she does with the byproducts.

	03-03-2005 00:28									#50
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Intrestingly, there are genetic differences between ethnic gruops based on how meat-rich the diet is. People whose ancestors ate lots of meat in thiee diet are at less risk of heart disease from eating food rich in saturated fat and cholesterol than people whose ancestors ate little meat.

	03-03-2005 00:31									#51
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quote: Originally posted by shawnmmcc Vegetarian, not vegan. Vegatarians can eat some things of animal origin. She just can't swallow....

TMI

	03-03-2005 01:23									#52
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH You're casting pearls before (mostly) swine.

	03-03-2005 01:26									#53
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TMI - on a thread titled "Cows look calm, but really they are gay nymphomaniacs".

Oh, and my wife read the posts - and accused me of having guy banter.

	03-03-2005 01:39									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov How does this affect your eating habbits?

Nothing at all.

	03-03-2005 04:16									#55
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It's all well and good with the intellectual masturbation about rights and suffering, but personally; as long as an animal hasn't suffered in its life, has had good food and good sex, and killed in a quick, humane manner, I have no problem with eating it. I don't think vegetarianism is wrong, ditto veganism... I wouldn't want it forced on me but must respect anyone who has the mental strength to avoid meat. As long as there's been no pain and suffering, I just don't think this is a moral problem.

	03-03-2005 04:30									#56
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the problem is there is suffering. Esp. with regards to chickens.

boycott KFC!!

	03-03-2005 04:33									#57
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quote: If you're going to use big words then find out what they mean first.

Espounded is a stupid typo expounded
Veracity... in the sense of reliability, monotonous fervour etc

quote: the problem is there is suffering. Esp. with regards to chickens.

True, that just sucks

	03-03-2005 04:50									#58
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The problem is that the cows are often sacrificed in an assembly line manner. The cow behind the one getting slugged in the head by the pneumatic hammer can probably see what's happening. The poor thing probably nearly has a heart attack, yet is too overcome by grief over the passing of her dear friend to run for life. Clearly a more humane process is required. Each cow should be taken aside seperately. The farmer should give her her favorite hay, gently stroke her head, whisper soothing words into her ear, then pull out a silenced revolver behid her back a deliver a single coup de grace at point blank range.

OTOH, maybe gay cows should be allowed one last "roll in the hay". During the tryst the farmer bursts in, screams in morale outrage, then executes both of them right there while in flagrante delicato . They get one last moment of happiness, and he gets steak. What could be more fair?

	03-03-2005 04:52									#59
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Post of the week!!

	03-03-2005 05:03									#60
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How do you define "pain"? If you mean the awareness of physical damage to one's body, plants certainly feel "pain," and how much more or less they feel than people is hard to say because it's of such a different type. If you mean the ability to ruminate on the nature of the damage, or to know what the feeling really means, then pain actually is linked to intelligence in that sense. This is why I don't care.

Maybe the animal can feel pain, and I think it wrong to make an animal feel more pain than necessary, just on principle, but the beast is not human. It was bred and raised for the explicit purpose of being killed and eaten someday. So far as we can discern it, the purpose of these beasts' lives is to end, as Agent Smith put it in a really crappy movie. Yay for meat.