03-03-2005 10:37									#1
	Post-contact tech trades Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

We will shortly have contact with both Morpork (Egypt, Masonry and CB) and the Lost Boys (Carthage, Masonry and Alphabet).

We'll have to see how what techs they researched and what techs we've researched line up. It's also possible they've already made contact with other civs, in which case we may be at a disadvantage to be being late to the game.

However, assuming we're the first contact for each of them, it seems clear to me we want to get Masonry from Morpork and Alphabet from the Lost Boys. This could always change, but it's the pattern that that spreads our techs between them, so assuming that we have an equal number of offerings for the two of them...

	03-03-2005 17:56									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I was thinking along the same lines.

(as posted in the turn thread):

Try to get:

LB: Alphabet (5) for Ceremonial Burial (2) + {Bronze Working (3) OR Warrior Code (3)}

M: Masonry (4) + {gold or goodwill} for Pottery (2) + {Bronze Working (3) and Warrior Code (3)}

Both teams will have finished one other tech by now, so this picture may change if we really meet them.

In any case, trading on the first turn we make contact is essential!
Lots of civs will be meeting each other around this point in time, and we need to get the best deals ASAP.

Spreading one of our techs among two trade partners is a good idea - it minimizes the possibilities for those civs to trade with each other. It also ensures that the next tech we discover is of interest to both of them.

	03-03-2005 20:07									#3
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Both civs will initally know we have CB & BW, but would only know we have WC and Pottery if they do.

(In MP, I see a way to in game propose sending a tech, but not a way to in game propose buying one.)

Yes, trade with both rather than just one of them.

	03-03-2005 20:12									#4
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In addition we could ask what their tech paths are to opimize future tech trades.

I see Egypt as either beeling to HBR (for building WCs and upgrading them to HorseMen to avoid the GA; allowed because The WC is a whelled unit. ) or in the middle of duplicating our beeline to Monarchy. In the second case we definately want one of us to stop duplicating the other.

I see Carthage as almost certaintely either in possesion of Writing or reseraching towards it with intention of resarching another post-Writing tech.

	03-03-2005 20:52									#5
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I think WCs only join the upgrade chain at Knights now. (After all, so long as you're okay with the GA, it's far better to use them when you won't be crossing mountains or jungle/marsh.) That said, I agree The Wheel is a likely choice for them; hopefully that's what they went for and we can trade for it.

	03-03-2005 22:56									#6
	Increase Your PM Length

Your right, WCs can't be promoted to Horse Men in Conquests.
-> 0% chance of Egyptains researching Horseback riding. (Just like the Hitites and the Three Man Chariot)

Still, I think a much beter use for the WC is faster production of Knights and Calvary. So they may still have wanted The Wheel early.

	04-03-2005 01:01									#7
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Since I'll be talking with my unnamed counterpart on the MorePork team, let me ask about this equation

M: Masonry (4) + {gold or goodwill} for Pottery (2) + {Bronze Working (3) and Warrior Code (3)}

Ideally we get Masonry and something for everything we have currently. The good will part is necessary if we are giving them the three techs stated. Seems like a lot of gold AND goodwill.

	04-03-2005 01:02									#8
	New Emperors!!! Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

BTW, just noticed that both of you guys (BigFurryMonster and joncnunn) just reached Emperor. Congratulations!

I'm a few hundred posts behind you both....

	04-03-2005 01:26									#9
	Re: New Emperors!!! Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Wow, I hadn't even noticed.

quote: Originally posted by Shogun Gunner BTW, just noticed that both of you guys (BigFurryMonster and joncnunn) just reached Emperor. Congratulations! I'm a few hundred posts behind you both....

	04-03-2005 01:29									#10
	Got spare money?

That's giving them 2 techs not 3.

Pottery plus EITHER bw OR WC.

quote: Originally posted by Shogun Gunner Since I'll be talking with my unnamed counterpart on the MorePork team, let me ask about this equation M: Masonry (4) + {gold or goodwill} for Pottery (2) + {Bronze Working (3) and Warrior Code (3)} Ideally we get Masonry and something for everything we have currently. The good will part is necessary if we are giving them the three techs stated. Seems like a lot of gold AND goodwill.

	04-03-2005 03:56									#11
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As joncnunn says, it wouldn't be all three techs for one of theirs.

As to goodwill... scratch it. We should be lenient when necessary in our trading standards, but we should never just give a large amount away. Goodwill is useless; any inter-team bond or commitment that is actually unbreakable will not succeed or fail on the basis of a free tech here or there.

	04-03-2005 04:19									#12
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okay, that makes more sense.... it would have needed to be a pretty big plate of goodwill...

My experience is this "accounting" of goodwill is easily forgotten anyway, so it would be just giving it away.

Okay, their 1 techs for 2 of our techs. I'll try to compare notes with Gamecube regarding what the other team is offering in trade so we can best craft our trading strategy.

	04-03-2005 14:12									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Yes, it's either:

Masonry + a little something for Pottery and BW

or

Masonry + a little something for Pottery and WC


Emperor BFM