04-03-2005 12:09									#31
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Source?

	04-03-2005 12:34									#32
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quote: The prime minister was expected to call for a moment of silence Friday

...

	04-03-2005 12:44									#33
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quote: Originally posted by techumseh Source?

Radio. The URL doesn't work very well.

	04-03-2005 13:47									#34
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It's actually an interesting question though, so I went looking. Not much can be found, but I did find this.

http://www.thehempire.com/pm/weblog/D20040806/

quote: Fewer than one in five people convicted in B.C. for running a grow op do jail time. In Washington State, almost half those convicted get a jail term of five years or more, Coleman says.

	04-03-2005 13:56									#35
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Factoid of the evening... most grow op convictions result in no jail time.

Which is one reason that this sort of thing is extremely rare.

	04-03-2005 13:59									#36
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RIP

I hope this dosen't mean you are starting to catch up with us.

	04-03-2005 16:58									#37
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Those cops aren't paid nearly enough for this kind of danger.

	04-03-2005 17:16									#38
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RIP.

	04-03-2005 19:07									#39
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http://www.metronews.ca/reuters_national.asp?id=59610

quote: Man Who Shot Canada Police Had Troubled Past Friday, March 04, 2005 8:12:48 AM ET By David Ljunggren OTTAWA (Reuters) - The man suspected of fatally shooting four Royal Canadian Mounted Police officers at a marijuana-growing operation was an angry person who loved guns and had had trouble with the law, relatives and media reports said on Friday. The four junior Mounties were guarding a farmhouse believed to be used to grow marijuana and store stolen property when they were ambushed on Thursday by a man with a high-powered rifle. The killings took place near the town of Mayerthorpe, about 90 miles (140 km) northwest of Edmonton. The deaths marked one of the bloodiest days in the history of the national police force and shocked a country with little violent crime. One of the dead officers had been on duty for just two weeks, said CTV television. The suspect also shot himself, police said. Relatives and the media named him as Jim Roszko, 46. A man who identified himself as Roszko's father said his son had always had an angry streak. "Because of the drugs, you know, and the bad company with bad boys ... (that) dragged him off the good tracks," Bill Roszko told CTV. "I don't want to have him as my son for what he was like, and the way things ended up. He is not my son," he said. The Globe and Mail newspaper quoted the elder Roszko as saying his son had spent time in prison. Residents of Mayerthorpe called Roszko "a walking time bomb" with a love of guns, CTV television and the Globe and Mail newspaper reported. CBC radio said he had a history of violence and instability. Police said the suspect was known to them -- a polite way of saying he had been in trouble with authorities. The killings focused attention on Canada's booming illegal marijuana trade, which in the western province of British Columbia alone is worth an estimated C$5 billion ($4 billion). Police say much of the trade is dominated by organized crime. Last November the Canadian government presented draft legislation which would decriminalize the possession of small amounts of marijuana -- an idea which has angered law enforcement officials in the United States. The draft legislation would strengthen the penalties for those involved in large-scale marijuana growing operations. Public Security Minister Anne McLellan said on Thursday she would look at further toughening the bill, under which growers caught with more than 50 plants face up to 14 years in jail. The legislation would make possession of up to 15 grams of marijuana punishable by a fine of $150 for adults and $100 for minors. Users would not get a criminal record. It has been 120 years, during the long rebellion by the mixed race Metis, made up of Indians and white settlers, and and Indians in western Canada, since so many national police officers have been shot and killed. "I am very concerned about people in society who are acting in a way which is almost unknown in Canada, where people react in a way that is so violent it's almost incomprehensible," said Commissioner Giuliano Zaccardelli, who is Canada's top Mountie.

	04-03-2005 21:15									#40
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More:

quote: RCMP set up roadblocks around the farm and the air space over the area was closed throughout the day. A television station in Edmonton reported that neighbours believe a man tried to flee the property at high speed Wednesday night. Sgt. Rick Oncescu of the Calgary RCMP said two SWAT teams had been called into the area. Maj. Scott Lundy, a spokesman for Edmonton Garrison, said two armoured personnel carriers, an ambulance and about 20 military personnel were dispatched from the military base, but about two hours later, police told the military their help was no longer needed. Emotions ran high, with local residents striking out at reporters and photographers who had descended on the town. One CBC cameraman was reportedly punched in the eye by a relative of one of the deceased officers. Mayerthorpe Mayor Albert Schalm said: "I’m sick. I don’t know what to tell you. It shocks me that this could even happen." James Roszko, the suspect in the shooting, was well known around town as being violent and mentally unstable. "Cops have known about him for a long time," said Pat Burns, a local carpenter. "The justice system doesn’t have the balls to do what needs to be done." Several people in town said there were rumours of Roszko hiding weapons on his property. The suspect is also reputed to have put planks with spikes in his driveway. When scrutineers came in before the last provincial election, the spikes blew out their tires. He was described as a loner who lived in a trailer on the west side of the farm, and his mother lived in a home on the other side of the large farm. In Whitecourt, Mayor Trevor Thain said. "It’s a sad, sad day in Whitecourt. It’s hard to put stuff like this into words, especially when one of your own is involved. My heart goes out to the family and to the families of the other officers who were killed. "The detachment is a great bunch of people and I’m sure I can’t even begin to imagine how they feel right now." Thain said the Whitecourt detachment has about 15 officers while the Mayerthorpe detachment only has about three or four members. Those numbers don’t include a highway patrol unit which is administered through the Whitecourt detachment. The officers who were shot were not part of the drug squad. Thursday’s shooting was the first time in nearly 20 years since multiple Canadian police officers were slain in action. On July 4, 1985, Const. Jacques Giguere and his partner Const. Yves Tetu of the Quebec Police Service were gunned down as they investigated the tripping of a burglar alarm at a medical equipment warehouse. Forty officers in Canada have died in the line of duty since 2000, including seven in 2004.

...

Specifically...

quote: RCMP say three members who died were from the Mayerthorpe detachment

...

quote: the Mayerthorpe detachment only has about three or four members.

	05-03-2005 00:36									#41
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Anthony Gordon, 28
Leo Johnston, 34
Brock Myrol, 29
Peter Schiemann, 25

From a recent interview, Brock Myrol said, "I wanted the opportunity to work with people and be able to make a difference. Over time, I saw all the good things you could do for people, and I enjoyed that."

	05-03-2005 00:52									#42
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quote: Space, it was only a marijuana farm You never know when somebod liek that is going to be the one to go over the top at you

A drug raid is a drug raid. Always unpredictable, the officers should always be prepared for the worst. And from those articles it sound like they were taking it seriously. However they should have never let the suspect get away, when he ran they (at least one guy, who could later call for backup) should have chased him.

	05-03-2005 00:59									#43
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Good to see our billion dollar gun registry is paying off.

	11-03-2005 22:22									#44
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I was at the RCMP curling club yesterday here in Ottawa during the memorial service for the agents. They were showing it on the big screen. There were at least 50 people in the bar and you could have heard a pin drop.

R.I.P.
...

	11-03-2005 22:36									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Space05us quote: Space, it was only a marijuana farm You never know when somebod liek that is going to be the one to go over the top at you A drug raid is a drug raid. Always unpredictable, the officers should always be prepared for the worst. And from those articles it sound like they were taking it seriously. However they should have never let the suspect get away, when he ran they (at least one guy, who could later call for backup) should have chased him.

Agreed that police have to try to be prepared but I don't think any police force in the world would have fared well against a trained sniper with a high powered rifle on his own turf ( particularly when there is every reason in the world to think that the guy would flee and in fact had fled)


The part that most bugs me is that the killer was apparently known as a "dangerous guy"-- How the heck do you take these people off the streets ?? Usually you have to wait for them to do something terrible enough to warrant it.

	11-03-2005 23:58									#46
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I'm still at a loss for words about this. Completely senseless.

	13-03-2005 02:57									#47
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1) This is the greatest RCMP tragedy in a long time. They were just young guys, no veterans with 'em.

2) As has been mentioned, most grow op raids in western canada, as I know from experience, are fairly civilized occurences as such things go. A bunch of aging hippies, rednecks, and kids don't usually put up much of a fight besides the old 'run away' strategy.

3) This explains some of the 'they weren't following the book' stuff the talking heads are on about. It wasn't that there is a 'gap in training' or procedure.

It's that 99% of the time, shutting down a marijuana op is relatively peaceful.

So that's the kind of 'round-up' situation they thought they were in for. NOBODY told them that it was Roscoe, a homicidal maniac, and that the situation was totally not what they had been led to believe.

Someone should have told them about this nut and his record, that he was likely to go down shooting, and we could have avoided such a loss of life.

	13-03-2005 05:40									#48
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--"A drug raid is a drug raid."

Looks like this became a drug raid only after the fact. Seems they were actually there to reposess his truck. Sounds like everyone around there knew he was a maniac, though. He shouldn't have been let of out jail in the first place if the rest of the story at the link is true.

Certainly wasn't a good thing, but blaming it on drugs is rather... media-whoresque.

Wraith
"EXONERATE, v.t. To show that from a series of vices and crimes some particular crime or vice was accidentally omitted."
-- Ambrose Bierce, The Enlarged Devil's Dictionary

	13-03-2005 07:11									#49
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So, if you are growing pot, don't sample so much of your product that you forget to make payments on your truck.

	13-03-2005 11:36									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Seeker So that's the kind of 'round-up' situation they thought they were in for. NOBODY told them that it was Roscoe, a homicidal maniac, and that the situation was totally not what they had been led to believe. Someone should have told them about this nut and his record, that he was likely to go down shooting, and we could have avoided such a loss of life.

The local RCMP (3 of the dead) did know about Roscoe. They knew he was a less than nice guy, but I don't think they could have been expected to know that he would become one of our more infamous citizens over the petty charges he would have faced over property and pot.

quote: Originally posted by Wraith He shouldn't have been let of out jail in the first place if the rest of the story at the link is true.

He wasn't in jail in the first place. That was an early rumour that proved to be false.

quote: Certainly wasn't a good thing, but blaming it on drugs is rather... media-whoresque.

I have to agree. This guy was a borderline psycho who could have gone off over just about anything. The amount of damage that he was able to do when the chip inside his head went overload is very sad, and it is contributing to large reactions.

Opponents of the government are using this to score cheap points, since the government has legislation pending on decriminalisation. And then there are the pro-potheads. They are using this to argue why pot should be decriminalised immediately. A pox on both their houses, I say.

	13-03-2005 13:40									#51
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither The local RCMP (3 of the dead) did know about Roscoe. They knew he was a less than nice guy, but I don't think they could have been expected to know that he would become one of our more infamous citizens over the petty charges he would have faced over property and pot.

Very true, and let's not forget that by the local RCMP standards, they had a lot of people out there. It's not like one guy was left to stand guard. There were three of them. Even if there was a veteran officer there, or 10 more officers, the situation may have ended the same.

	15-03-2005 22:52									#52
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Opponents of the government are using this to score cheap points, since the government has legislation pending on decriminalisation.

How is questioning a nonsensical policy an attempt to score "cheap points"? I asked Liberals present to defend this proposed change four pages ago and am still waiting. The federal government's policy will make this sort of thing MORE LIKELY in the future. Cheap point or valid question?

quote: And then there are the pro-potheads. They are using this to argue why pot should be decriminalised immediately. A pox on both their houses, I say.

"Decriminalised" is the problem. Legal for users but not growers. WTF? Is pot just going to fall from the sky in the future? I suspect demand will rise, hence an increase in growops that our brave police are going to be asked to bust up. Either legalise pot outright or maintain it as a criminal product. This mushy middle ground is dangerous and BS.

Liberals...?

	16-03-2005 06:57									#53
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Well, I think the federal Liberals are moving to make de jur what is already de facto regarding possession of small amounts of pot. So far so good, as it is not good for respect of law and law enforcement when not even the police can be bothered to enforce some parts of the criminal code.

Now, you are right. Where will the pot come from? Very good question.

The best thing that could happen is full legalisation and regulation. Getting pot out of the hands of the pushers who may then introduce people to harder substances makes a lot of sense to me.

Perhaps it is a matter of one step at a time.

	16-03-2005 07:10									#54
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither The best thing that could happen is full legalisation and regulation.

	16-03-2005 09:46									#56
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That's beautiful...who did it?

	16-03-2005 09:48									#57
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Don't know, but it'll apparently be displayed in Edmonton

Four Black Horses
by Jim McGregor - Langley City Fire Department

Four black horses without riders
Galloped the Alberta plain;
Four black horses, sent from Depot
To bring the boys home again.

Four black horses with empty saddles
Race the cold prairie sun;
Four black horses arrive at the farmyard
As the last bullet leaves the gun.

Four black horses stand with heads bowed
Wait til the echoes subside;
Four black horses turn as they're mounted,
Now their heads held high with pride.

Four mounted policemen take hold of the reins
Spur their mounts holding lances high;
Four black horses, red serge in the saddles,
Disappear in the Alberta sky.

	16-03-2005 10:09									#58
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Quite moving.

	16-03-2005 10:50									#59
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http://www.mitchelladvocate.com/story.php?id=147663


We can now say for certain that drugs kill after RCMP tragedy
Since You Asked...

By Marc Hulet
Wednesday March 09, 2005
Mitchell Advocate — A lot of marijuana advocates will tell you pot is okay because it’s not addictive or it doesn’t hurt anyone.
Tell that to the four families who are in mourning after their loved ones - four Alberta RCMP officers - were gunned down in cold blood while guarding a grow operation during a raid gone horribly wrong.
We can now say, unequivocally, that drugs kill.
The alleged killer, who reportedly took his own life after killing the officers, owned the property where the marijuana operation was found and reportedly had a lengthy criminal record.
And to think, the government of Canada is considering decriminalizing marijuana. How stupid.
It’s almost as stupid as actually doing drugs.
Not only are drugs bad for your health, but they are addictive and they attract some of the worst human beings on the face of the earth.
As well, lesser drugs like marijuana lead to harder, more dangerous and more expensive drugs like cocaine or heroin.
That in turn makes life more dangerous for the average citizen of Canada as we have to worry about having our homes burglarized to help a dope-fiend pay for his or her next fix. Or we have to worry about accidentally getting caught in the crossfire of a drug deal gone wrong or a turf war by rival, drug running gangs.
One of the worst things we can do is turn a blind eye to this problem. It is easy for a smaller community to say, “Oh well, this is a big city problem.”
But I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. There are drugs in our community and in our schools. It does happen in Mitchell and it does happen in Fullarton, Logan and Hibbert.
Your children are exposed to it every day, whether it is in the hallways of Mitchell District High School, or in Lions Park.
It is horrible that it takes a tragedy, like what occurred in Alberta, to really open the eyes of Canadian citizens but hopefully we can learn from this.
I lost one very good friend to drugs and I don’t want to lose anyone else.

	16-03-2005 10:52									#60
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Pot wasn't the reason the cops were there, pot wasn't the reason the guy was a notorious cop-hater, and pot wasn't why he gunned them down in cold blood.

People who are using the deaths of these officers as political fodder ought to be ashamed. They are horrible Christians.