05-03-2005 08:59									#31
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Why on Earth would any government do something so facist as discourage arranged marriages? All y'all are off your rockers. A goodly portion of the world works just fine with an arranged marriage system.

figures DanS would say something like this

	05-03-2005 09:20									#32
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There have been "honor" murders in the U.S. as well.

The level of civilization a society has reached can be determined in how they treat "their" women.

	05-03-2005 09:41									#33
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Abusing Turkish woman.

Ted Striker to the rescue.

	05-03-2005 09:43									#34
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara There have been "honor" murders in the U.S. as well. The level of civilization a society has reached can be determined in how they treat "their" women.

and a system of arranged marriages treats women like property.... that may all be well and good for barbarians and Republicans, but I don't consider a society "civilized" if it treats women like property.

	05-03-2005 10:33									#35
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Saying that arranged marriage works is like saying that removing the possibility of divorce works. Hell, fascism worked. That doesn't mean its desireable.

Interestingly, when kids become Westernized, they aren't too keen on arranged marriage, and only do it to keep peace in the family.

I lost a girlfriend to an arranged marriage once. She was soooo hot, but she went to India for her Christmas break and came back engaged. She finally did break it off, but by then I was busy with someone else.

	05-03-2005 10:34									#36
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.

	05-03-2005 10:43									#37
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Generally, and this is a truth solid as granite rock, cure for most remains of the past is female education. No amount of money and effort should be spared to make females as educated as possible

	05-03-2005 10:44									#38
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And then send them to work while we stay home and play computer games.

	05-03-2005 10:49									#39
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And BlackCat

I didn't understand what you are saying? You can't marry someone unless you live separately for 6 years? Or what?

Btw., as far as I know, Denmark seems to be one of the more strict european countries with regards to immigrants. Are there any visible effects of such policies? Such as reduction of crime rate or rise in employement?

	05-03-2005 10:51									#40
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara And then send them to work while we stay home and play computer games.

Man, tell me how to get a setup like that dogg.

	05-03-2005 10:58									#41
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara And then send them to work while we stay home and play computer games.

Nothing better than having your beer fetched by a professoresse

	05-03-2005 10:59									#42
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True.

	05-03-2005 11:06									#43
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quote: Why on Earth would any government do something so facist as discourage arranged marriages? All y'all are off your rockers. A goodly portion of the world works just fine with an arranged marriage system.

Arranged marriages "work" because it's quite difficult for women to get out of said marriages in societies where they're prominent.

	05-03-2005 11:44									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Forbidding arranged marriages and including a means to prosecute parents who force their children to marry against their will. How is this going to be done? The bride and groom can just say that they want to be married and how will anyone know that the parents have arranged the marriage?

You caqn't at least make force marriage a crime and if it is reported you can through both of those worthless parents into jail for the rest of their natural lives.

	05-03-2005 11:50									#45
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Well, I've seen the good side of arranged marriages and I don't think there is anything wrong with it, as long as both parties aren't forced into it.

The type I have seen, the two families know each other, so they know the persepective partner for years and years. They just sort of introduce the two together, and if they want to get married, they can, if they don't, they don't have to.

My friend actually said it was a more successful method because you learn to live with the person you are married to, instead of having to try and make them into someone you want them to be and then being frustrated all the time.

	05-03-2005 12:15									#46
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The article in the first post spoke about 16 year old girls being forced to marry older men they'd never met or they'd be killed.

	05-03-2005 13:02									#47
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Oh, well those cases are defintley bad then.

	05-03-2005 13:06									#48
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My personal experience with arranged marriages (including my parents') is that they end up far worse than "love marriages."

	05-03-2005 15:40									#49
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Why on Earth would any government do something so facist as discourage arranged marriages? All y'all are off your rockers. A goodly portion of the world works just fine with an arranged marriage system.

Marriages where the partners (esp. the women, or rather girls) have no choice at all aren't facist? And this is not happening in a "goodly portion of the world". Its happening in our "enlightened part of the world" where we grant people usually some more freedoms.....

	05-03-2005 16:02									#50
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My point is, if someone missed it is that these thigns can't be stopped. It's not a question of will, it's just a thing we can't stop and the earlier we realize it, the earlier can we do something about it, that is less than we hoped for but still more effective than thinking what went wrong. Nothing went wrong. The guys are crazy in the head when it comes to these things. When they threaten to kill their own family member for being raped by another man, you know they will kill her even if she escapes and comes back in 10 years. She's dead. What can you say about people who do that stuff? Can you say animals? Or would you prefer misguided children of the world? I prefer animals. Rotten animals, and there's nothing we can do about it, the only thing we can do is deliver justice and punish the people who do it. They should know that kill the woman and you will spend the next 60 years on butty prison getting it on with their sellmates, who were gagging for a feisty hairy man with passion.

That's all we can do, and of course offer women protection who are in danger of getting killed, meaning hiding them, changing their legal names etc. So yeah that and bashing their animal faces in.

	05-03-2005 16:45									#51
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Or we could just cut open their chest and pull out their lungs as we did in the good old days. I think it's called "eagle wings"

	05-03-2005 20:09									#52
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So long as the children consent to who their parents set them up with, and as long as either party can leave such a marriage, I don't see why you would want to ban arranged marriages, in fact it would be rather fascist to do so if both partners wanted to marry who their parents picked for them.

In cultures where arranged marriage is present, many people both men and women support it. They view the alternative of dating to be a stressful and difficult affair that they don't want to have to deal with. In those culture's view, the passion that arises from dating can be a temporary thing and is not the basis for a lifelong commitment. Rather, they prefer that their parents who will be more rational about the decision pick the partner.

Given how in the USA 50% of marriages end in divorce, we are not in a strong position to criticize other cultures on this.

	05-03-2005 21:35									#53
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quote: Originally posted by VetLegion And BlackCat I didn't understand what you are saying? You can't marry someone unless you live separately for 6 years? Or what? Btw., as far as I know, Denmark seems to be one of the more strict european countries with regards to immigrants. Are there any visible effects of such policies? Such as reduction of crime rate or rise in employement?

You can of course marry at any legal age, but this 24 year rule says that the foregin partner cannot settle in Denmark if they are considered to have closer relations as a pair to the foreign country. If they marry, they either has to live seperated until both are 24 or settle abroad.

The rule was introduced in 2001/2 to prevent forced marriages where 17-18 years, typically girls, was used to get cousins from the origin country into Denmark.

There are several positive aspects in this. The girl, instead of getting married so young and probably a mother in a year, now are able to get an education and getting older and more able to figth against such a forced marriage. The parents also get it a lot easier because they can tell about this rule when the family tries to lay pressure to get some of their boys married.

This rule isn't that old, so the effects hasn't shown yet, execpt for one thing - immigration has dropped to half for those countries typically involved in this kind of marriage. Crime is not a great issue, and employment will take some time to show because it takes time to get education.

	05-03-2005 22:42									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi Given how in the USA 50% of marriages end in divorce, we are not in a strong position to criticize other cultures on this.

That assumes that divorce is a bad thing. It isn't. Divorce is a good thing. It allows people to get out of bad marriages. In other coutries, this isn't an option, so spouses are either abandoned, murdered or forced to live in a horrible situation. This is NOT preferable to divorce.

	06-03-2005 04:25									#55
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Divorce of parents has nearly destroyed a couple of my friends' lives, so I don't view it in a favorable light. While I agree that the option of divorce may have some impact, the widespread and repetitive use of it seems highly negative.

As for arranged marriages, I have seen a couple of my friends be successful with them. I don't know how all families approach it, but at least my friends weren't forced into it by their parents. At a minimum, I view this decision as none of the government's business, unless it breaks other well established laws.

	06-03-2005 06:59									#56
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara That assumes that divorce is a bad thing. It isn't. Divorce is a good thing. It allows people to get out of bad marriages. In other coutries, this isn't an option, so spouses are either abandoned, murdered or forced to live in a horrible situation. This is NOT preferable to divorce.

Legalized divorce and the State having the right to sieze children when they are abused are similar in this regard. It's a good thing that the right exists. In the case of divorce, people aren't forced to stay with someone they don't want to. In the case of abused children, it's a good thing that when that occurs the State has the right to sieze the kids and take them away. But that doesn't mean it's a good thing when a lot of kids are being taken away by the state, nor is it a good thing when the right to divorce is exercised frequently.

	06-03-2005 07:16									#57
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It seems that both systems are broken- we need to genetically engineer people to be able to reproduce asexually.

	06-03-2005 22:25									#58
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Divorce of parents has nearly destroyed a couple of my friends' lives, so I don't view it in a favorable light.

Cuz living with two parents who hate each other in an emotional lethal marriage is sooooo much better for children. I can't believe anyone is so evil that they would rather force children to live in a toxic situation, but then, I forget what conseravtives are like sometimes.

	06-03-2005 22:26									#59
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Che, in my experience when my parents who hated each other lived together, it was still better byu an order of magnitude than the crap that's happened since.

	06-03-2005 22:29									#60
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I wish my folks had divorced ten years sooner.