08-03-2005 07:14									#31
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quote: I agree with Asher.

Ha ha ha, Drake is agreeing with Asher now.

	08-03-2005 07:15									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Eh, except it's bullshit. There's no such thing as "the press" that has the rights - the rights of the "press" refers to anyone.

So you are part of the press? See if you can call up the White House and get an interview with Mr Bush.

	08-03-2005 07:16									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger So you are part of the press? See if you can call up the White House and get an interview with Mr Bush.

Perfect example, mate.

White house approves Press Pass for blogger.

How do you spell "pwn3d"?

	08-03-2005 07:17									#34
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quote: Ha ha ha, Drake is agreeing with Asher now.

My love for blogs has corrupted me, it seems...

BTW, I was just informed that the goddamn spyware wasn't completely removed, so I'm going to have to download some more programs and start all over again. How the **** do you PC users deal with this ****?

	08-03-2005 07:37									#35
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quote: Perfect example, mate.

What about the gay escort dude? I wouldn't call him "real press".

What'sthe law on the press profiting from illegal activities?

	08-03-2005 08:48									#36
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quote: BTW, I was just informed that the goddamn spyware wasn't completely removed, so I'm going to have to download some more programs and start all over again. How the **** do you PC users deal with this ****?

I lock it down and avoid pr0n sites...

	08-03-2005 09:08									#37
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This is absurd. The government doesn't get to decide who is members of the legitimate press or not, it doesn't get to decide who gets free speech and who doesn't.

	08-03-2005 09:38									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Perfect example, mate. White house approves Press Pass for blogger. How do you spell "pwn3d"?

Own goal.

A Daily Press Pass for the White House isn't the same thing as getting an interview with the President of the United States. Furthermore, one sample point doesn't support your argument - this is called a Hasty Generalization.

	08-03-2005 09:39									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi This is absurd. The government doesn't get to decide who is members of the legitimate press or not, it doesn't get to decide who gets free speech and who doesn't.

If the courts don't get to decide, who does?

	08-03-2005 09:51									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger this is called a Hasty Generalization.

You mean saying that all blogs are not Press?

	08-03-2005 09:56									#41
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quote: You mean saying that all blogs are not Press?

Even if they aren't, it's not clear that they have the right to publish information that was obtained illegally, and is not in the public interest (or at least in cases where the public interest is outweighed by particular private interest).

I'd like to know what the law is on this, if anyone has a good idea. It would make sense that the press ought not to be protected when it publishes material that they knew was obtained illegally, and which serves no real public interest.

And the slavering Apple-mad mobs who want to know what Apple is coming out with hardly constitute the public interest.

On the other hand, presumably Apple should be tighter in its own internal security than blaming the bloggers.

	08-03-2005 10:01									#42
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The problem is Apple lives under NDA. Every single stupid little thing, they fax over an NDA and get a lawyer to watch you sign it.

They tell everyone lots of things (including interns at other companies), then get all pissy when the information leaks to the press.

The problem isn't Bloggers and Apple saying they're not protected by freedom of speech, the problem is Apple thinking that by whiping out thousands of copies of NDAs they can squash everyone's freedom of speach, and even sue sites that publish information they hear anonymously (which means without credentials)...

	08-03-2005 10:05									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger If the courts don't get to decide, who does?

Shi, you've got to remember where he's posting from.

	09-03-2005 02:50									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger So you are part of the press? See if you can call up the White House and get an interview with Mr Bush.

I'll give you a pass this time since English is a second language for you, but why don't you work on your reading comprehension? There is no "the press".

	09-03-2005 02:52									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Even if they aren't, it's not clear that they have the right to publish information that was obtained illegally, and is not in the public interest (or at least in cases where the public interest is outweighed by particular private interest).

There. Is. No. Press.

The rights of the press extend to the right of ANYONE to publish a particular type of material. Either Apple has really bad lawyers, or the article writer didn't understand what Apple was saying, because their argument should be along the lines that trade secrets aren't covered under the freedom of the press - which is true.

	09-03-2005 03:04									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Own goal. A Daily Press Pass for the White House isn't the same thing as getting an interview with the President of the United States. Furthermore, one sample point doesn't support your argument - this is called a Hasty Generalization.

Err... you aren't going to argue, I hope, that it takes an interview with the president to be considered member of the press?

	09-03-2005 03:04									#47
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quote: the article writer didn't understand what Apple was saying

That's probably the case. Usually journalists don't understand the legal arguments very well and get it wrong often.

	09-03-2005 03:05									#48
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Well, it's why so many of them until recently were firmly on SCO's side of the SCO-IBM tussle.

	09-03-2005 03:05									#49
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They also don't understand technology, or science, or mathematics, or... ______________.

Yet we rely on them to learn about our world and its events.

Pretty funny stuff.

	09-03-2005 03:15									#50
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There's a reason why you never listen for technological happenings in the mainstream media. They're usually two weeks to a month behind the curve.

	09-03-2005 04:12									#51
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This is basic bullying tactics. Apple can't protect its trade secrets and thinks that a big, blustery legal attack will show they're serious. They really just want source names so they can legitimately punish the NDA signers in violation of confidentiality.

It's pretty pathetic, because one thing that's been made VERY clear in the IT industry is that you can't keep everyone quiet. And trying to force geeks to be quiet is just another way to inspire further rebellious behavior.

The idea of a lawsuit based on defining what is (and is not) "the press" is pretty audacious.

Originally, the press was literally anyone who could reproduce the written word. There has never been a requirement of a journalism degree, nor any litmus test for legitimacy beyond having a constituency and reputation.

Funny how that has come 'round full circle with bloggers. Ironic and all...

It's the whole legal issue of intellectual property that has just gotten out of hand, with more lawyers trying to set more precedents every day, co-opting this (valid) legal concept into just another form of institutionalized fascism.

It's good for ppl to see that Apple is just another corporation, same as the others. Their roots are "of the people" but that's as far as it goes.

That said, I remain a loyal user.

	09-03-2005 11:47									#52
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quote: BTW, I was just informed that the goddamn spyware wasn't completely removed, so I'm going to have to download some more programs and start all over again. How the **** do you PC users deal with this ****?

Do you know how to edit registries? The spyware has changed a registry key so that it loads on startup. I use an anti-browser hijacker that also allows me to get rid of troublesome spyware.

	09-03-2005 12:01									#53
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http://forums.thetechguys.com

	09-03-2005 12:06									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Even if they aren't, it's not clear that they have the right to publish information that was obtained illegally,

Sure they do. The press does it all the time when classified memos are leaked. Weren't you defending such actions when Bush wanted to sue journalists who published classified info? So no that Apple is the target you've changed your mind?

	09-03-2005 18:07									#55
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quote: Do you know how to edit registries? The spyware has changed a registry key so that it loads on startup. I use an anti-browser hijacker that also allows me to get rid of troublesome spyware.

We finally got rid of it. Turned out to be a brand new virus, so the definitions for it weren't out when I first tried to fix it. I spent hours removing spyware downloaded by a virus that the removal programs couldn't recognize and remove yet...

	09-03-2005 18:25									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Sure they do. The press does it all the time when classified memos are leaked. Weren't you defending such actions when Bush wanted to sue journalists who published classified info? So no that Apple is the target you've changed your mind?

Trade secrets are not covered by freedom of the press. Government secrets are. It's just the employee who leaked who gets in trouble.

	09-03-2005 21:01									#57
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information should be free!

	09-03-2005 21:02									#58
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So should Macedonia.

	09-03-2005 21:37									#59
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quote: Sure they do. The press does it all the time when classified memos are leaked. Weren't you defending such actions when Bush wanted to sue journalists who published classified info? So no that Apple is the target you've changed your mind?

I'm talking about the law, not about my personal opinion. My personal opinion is that most bloggers and virtually all of the mass media are pathetic liars who should be shot.

OK.

	09-03-2005 23:17									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: Don't look at me... On the other hand, installing linux will get rid of spyware... mostly because you'll have to do a reformat/install. If she can't manage to use Messenger without picking up a virus, I doubt she'll be able to handle linux... Problem is fixed, btw, by all indications. At work now after 4 hours of sleep.

Looks like it's the user that needs upgrading.