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Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
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  Old Post 09-03-2005 02:20 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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quote:
Anyways back to Congo, there is no hope there. The country needs to be broken up I think.

Right, 'cause we know that breaking up countries always leads to peace...

In any case, if we break up the Congo, we might as well allow an independent Kurdistan and an free Basque state.

bfg: i remember you mentioned something like this before, and i couldn't tell then whether or not you were joking.

Odin is offline Odin
Prince
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Sep 2000
time: 23:16
  Old Post 09-03-2005 02:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed

In any case, if we break up the Congo, we might as well allow an independent Kurdistan and an free Basque state.


FREE THE KURDS AND THE BASQUES!!!

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
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Oh, and free Tibet, and the Confederacy.

Odin is offline Odin
Prince
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Sep 2000
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quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed
Oh, and free Tibet, and the Confederacy.


Kicking out the southern nut-jobs:

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
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...

Actually, it's more about kicking out the Northern Oppressors.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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  Old Post 09-03-2005 03:20 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
yeah he speaks his mind.


So does George Carlin I think that's his name.. doesn't denote he is a particularly smart man. He is funny though.

Sava is offline Sava
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Mar 2001
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  Old Post 09-03-2005 03:21
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George Carlin

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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  Old Post 09-03-2005 03:22 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed
quote:
Anyways back to Congo, there is no hope there. The country needs to be broken up I think.

Right, 'cause we know that breaking up countries always leads to peace...

In any case, if we break up the Congo, we might as well allow an independent Kurdistan and an free Basque state.

bfg: i remember you mentioned something like this before, and i couldn't tell then whether or not you were joking.


Why so? Why should we allow an independent Kurdistan? Or a free basque state? A unified Iraq and Spain are viable, a unified Congo most certainly is not. We are talking about many different tribes..

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
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  Old Post 09-03-2005 03:26 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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quote:
Why so? Why should we allow an independent Kurdistan? Or a free basque state? A unified Iraq and Spain are viable, a unified Congo most certainly is not. We are talking about many different tribes..

Most Basques seem to chafe at being called "Spanish", and the one Spaniard I know (a Mallorcan, go fig...) would like them to be their own separate country, so they can live in their squalor.
Kurds like having their own ethnic identity, and it seems a good fraction of them don't like being called "Turks" or "Iraqis". It's kinda like how all those tribes in the Congo don't like being associated with those other tribes. :shrugs:

Only difference between the Congo and Spain/Iraq is that in the former, you don't have a strong army to keep things unified and under control.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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  Old Post 09-03-2005 03:27 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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The Basques have autonomy and plenty of it.. and Iraqi kurds most certainly have it. Iraqis don't have to be arabs. I'm tired of your reasoning, Q cubed. It is horrific.

Sava is offline Sava
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  Old Post 09-03-2005 03:32
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independent Kurdistan

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Prince
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  Old Post 09-03-2005 03:39 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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quote:
The Basques have autonomy and plenty of it.. and Iraqi kurds most certainly have it. Iraqis don't have to be arabs. I'm tired of your reasoning, Q cubed. It is horrific.


You need to figure out when someone's serious and someone's not. I'm trying to point out that even dividing up the Congo, your preferred solution, will really lead to no change. It'll still be a hellhole, so... why update our maps for no real gain?

(Hell, I still don't understand why we even needed to change it from (blighted) Zaire to (blighted) DROC... )

Odin is offline Odin
Prince
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Sep 2000
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  Old Post 09-03-2005 03:39
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Independent Basqueland, just to PO Gian:

N35t0r is offline N35t0r
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Jan 2000
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  Old Post 09-03-2005 06:53
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Violence with Western capitalists in control is preferable to peace with locals in control. Of course, peace with Western capitalists in control is most prefered by Western capitalists.


All of this is true as long as it doesn't cost money... Money gets assigned mostly for the 'important' projects, such as stopping the evil communist advance...

As far as Congo is concerned, IMHO the country should be 'encouraged' to set up a fairer government... (And this should be applied to most aid-recieving nations) You send missions to asses the level of human rights and general quality of life, and what the government does to promote/improve them, and award aid according to this (It should be compared to the lifestyle level of the ruling class). As time goes by, whoever is on top will at least try to level things out a bit, and it's there when you've got to insist on education. And make sure the people are really being educated and not brainwashed. You can even provide mostly technical knowledge (be it in agriculture or whatever else is most useful for the people), but also some civic education, and the people will slowly start to put pressure on the government.

The problem with all of this, is that it requres constant watching over, and it can get screwed up by a plague, bad harvest, or any other event (human or not) which can cause massive discontent among the population...

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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  Old Post 09-03-2005 06:55 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed
quote:
The Basques have autonomy and plenty of it.. and Iraqi kurds most certainly have it. Iraqis don't have to be arabs. I'm tired of your reasoning, Q cubed. It is horrific.


You need to figure out when someone's serious and someone's not. I'm trying to point out that even dividing up the Congo, your preferred solution, will really lead to no change. It'll still be a hellhole, so... why update our maps for no real gain?

(Hell, I still don't understand why we even needed to change it from (blighted) Zaire to (blighted) DROC... )


Will it? Each country can get hold of its own territory build up its own economy.. I don't think the Congolese government can control anything outside of Kinshasa.

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
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quote:
Will it? Each country can get hold of its own territory build up its own economy.. I don't think the Congolese government can control anything outside of Kinshasa.


'Cause we can see how well so many sub-saharan countries can control their borders and territories...

Free Basque-land! Free Kurdistan! Free Chechenya! Free Tibet!

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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  Old Post 09-03-2005 07:00 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed
quote:
Will it? Each country can get hold of its own territory build up its own economy.. I don't think the Congolese government can control anything outside of Kinshasa.


'Cause we can see how well so many sub-saharan countries can control their borders and territories...

Free Basque-land! Free Kurdistan! Free Chechenya! Free Tibet!


I'm not talking about a particular people. I'm just saying the DRC is not manageable as a country.

PWNED!

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
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  Old Post 09-03-2005 07:02 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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I'm not disagreeing with you here. Congo is quite unmanageable... however, dividing it up won't solve any problems... So why redraw the map?

Free Basque-land! Free Kurdistan! Free Chechenya! Free Tibet!

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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  Old Post 09-03-2005 07:03 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed


I'm not disagreeing with you here. Congo is quite unmanageable... however, dividing it up won't solve any problems... So why redraw the map?


Then leave it as it is and just to hell with it? Yeah, that's what I was originally saying.

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
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Apr 1999
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  Old Post 09-03-2005 07:07 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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quote:
Then leave it as it is and just to hell with it? Yeah, that's what I was originally saying.


Then WTF are we arguing about?

Jesus, you're so eager to try to get some pwnage that you end up firing on friendlies. How American. You're assimilating well.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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  Old Post 09-03-2005 07:08 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed
Jesus, you're so eager to try to get some pwnage that you end up firing on friendlies. How American. You're assimilating well.


You were the one attacking me. So who is attacking who?

N35t0r is offline N35t0r
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quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo
The Basques have autonomy and plenty of it.. and Iraqi kurds most certainly have it. Iraqis don't have to be arabs. I'm tired of your reasoning, Q cubed. It is horrific.


He never mentioned that Iraquis have to be arab, but there's these things called nationalities which are mostly tied to one ethnic group / culture, and by putting two groups inside one bag, especially if one of them is a minority, will not make them happy... The gentilice(sp?) gets attatched to the larger group, and thus the smaller group feels like it shouldn't belong there... They're not called Kurds just for no reason, you know? By the way, have you ever taken a close look at the Iraqui flag? There's the text "Allah Ackbar" written on arabic on it. Hardly an arab country, right?

As for the Basques, yes they do have some degree of autonomy, but they don't have independance. Many nations fought for independance even when they did have various degrees of autonomy.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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  Old Post 09-03-2005 07:10 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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The Basques are better off with the Spanish government.. the Spanish government has done a lot for them to help them. Don't paint me as an idiot.

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
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  Old Post 09-03-2005 07:12 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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quote:
You were the one attacking me. So who is attacking who?

Wrong. I never attacked you. I merely pointed out that your suggestion, that we divide up the Congo, wasn't going to change the fact that the region is still a clearer hell.

Are you that desperate for pwnage? There are other people on the boards that actually disagree with you that you could try pwning instead.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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  Old Post 09-03-2005 07:13 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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ok whatever.. if you want to be unreasonable fine with me..

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quote:
The Basques are better off with the Spanish government.. the Spanish government has done a lot for them to help them. Don't paint me as an idiot.

I'm sure they are better off with Spanish government. Doesn't mean that some of them don't want independence. Hell, a case could be made about how India and Pakistan were better off with British Administration...

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed
quote:
The Basques are better off with the Spanish government.. the Spanish government has done a lot for them to help them. Don't paint me as an idiot.

I'm sure they are better off with Spanish government. Doesn't mean that some of them don't want independence. Hell, a case could be made about how India and Pakistan were better off with British Administration...


I'm sure some in the Southern US still want their independence.. doesn't mean they'll get it!

N35t0r is offline N35t0r
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Jan 2000
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  Old Post 09-03-2005 07:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo
The Basques are better off with the Spanish government.. the Spanish government has done a lot for them to help them. Don't paint me as an idiot.


And England did a lot for the land that now is the United States to become what it is, does that mean that it should have remained permanently a colony of her?

And please don't start with the 'don't paint me as an idiot' crap.

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
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quote:
ok whatever.. if you want to be unreasonable fine with me..

Once again, Fez, we've started arguing over nothing in particular. I never attacked you, only your suggestion.

quote:
I'm sure some in the Southern US still want their independence.. doesn't mean they'll get it!

Damn Northern Opressors! The South will rise again! FREE THE CONFEDERACY!

boann is offline boann
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ice queen colorado
Sep 2000
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  Old Post 09-03-2005 07:50
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agg don't stir that southern pot... you might wake
up those Texans

 
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