19-04-2005 00:09									#31
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I think some people may be confused between the winter war, and the chaotic events surrounding the end of the old russian empire and creation of balt lands and finlands, which was basically a bunch of german first world war officers volunteering to stay and fight commies. I guess the events from 1917 to 1945 all sort of run together in that part of the world.

	19-04-2005 00:21									#32
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The Molotov-Ribbentrop was just a tragic necessity. You are conveniently forgetting what happened in Munich one year before that, who was responsible and what the consequences of Munich-1938 were for the world situation. Should I remind you? But to me it's no question that in 1945 we should have given their independence back to the three Baltic countries. It's shameful that we didn't.

	19-04-2005 01:25									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Heresson Worth to mention Moscow recently also reprimanded Poland for it's negative attitude towards Jalta treaty, which, according to Russia, was a bliss for it.

Well, actually Poland got quite a chunk of German lands in the west. You should not be complaining too much about that.

quote: I admire the courage of both presidents,

No special courage is required for that in the present situation. As compared with the "courage" to discriminate agaist Russian-speaking minorities in their countries, the refusal to visit Moscow looks just like a minor naughtiness.

	19-04-2005 01:31									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Heresson "That stupid war of ours about 1920" saved your German and other European asses from decades of communist rule.

Now this is how you call your noble grab for the territory from a country devastated by WWI and the Civil War. Pretty much similar to your participation in eating up Chechoslovakia in 1938.

	19-04-2005 01:49									#35
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I am sure if President Paksas (the only legitimate president of Lithuania) were still in power he would be coming to Moscow.

	19-04-2005 02:02									#36
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I thought he kind of lost his legitimacy when the local parliament impeached him about a year ago?-)

	19-04-2005 02:15									#37
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Yeah, "kind of".

The true masters of Lithuania masterfully played the russophobia card. What a shame!

	19-04-2005 02:32									#38
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Well, I also thought high-profile politicians would be reasonable enough to not hang around with shadowy businesspersons who as a bonus happen to come from a certain Foreign Power Not Generally Thought Well Of in their country and not grant them citizenships and classified information because of their aforementioned buddy status. But hell no, Paksas even managed to look surprised when the parliament and supreme court went berserk on him.

	19-04-2005 03:00									#39
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Please explain to me how the SU was intimidated by Munich into signing the "Division of Poland, etc." Pact of August, 1939?

	19-04-2005 05:28									#40
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quote: Originally posted by The Vagabond The Molotov-Ribbentrop was just a tragic necessity. You are conveniently forgetting what happened in Munich one year before that, who was responsible and what the consequences of Munich-1938 were for the world situation. Should I remind you? But to me it's no question that in 1945 we should have given their independence back to the three Baltic countries. It's shameful that we didn't.

quote: Originally posted by The Vagabond Well, actually Poland got quite a chunk of German lands in the west. You should not be complaining too much about that.

I do not. I complain about taking a half of pre-war Polish territory and 45 years of vassalisation and forced disastrous economical system.

quote: Originally posted by The Vagabond Now this is how you call your noble grab for the territory from a country devastated by WWI and the Civil War. Pretty much similar to your participation in eating up Chechoslovakia in 1938.

Yeah. I gues Poland, on which territory most eastern front fighting took place, and which was just emerging from over a hungred years of lack of existance, I guess it was in much better state.
Land grab? This land would have to belong to USSR for Poland to grab.
Also, USSR planned invasion of Poland, and it attacked and annected its Ukrainian ally.
Chechoslovakia - well, Chechoslovakians, profitting from Soviet invasion of Poland, did actually do a land-grab of 5% Czech territory. Polish demands in 1938 were very modest. You wouldn't even see them on European map

quote: Originally posted by Patriqvium I thought he kind of lost his legitimacy when the local parliament impeached him about a year ago?-)

It seems for Russians the support of Russian mafia is the best legitimacy

	19-04-2005 05:44									#41
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There was no justification for the M-R pact. It was pure naked Imperialism and greed at its worst.

	19-04-2005 06:09									#42
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quote: Yeah. I gues Poland, on which territory most eastern front fighting took place

Hardly, Ther Germans blitzed it, and then the Russians blitzed it right back. If anything, it had some of the least fighting.

quote: Also, USSR planned invasion of Poland, and it attacked and annected its Ukrainian ally. Chechoslovakia - well, Chechoslovakians, profitting from Soviet invasion of Poland, did actually do a land-grab of 5% Czech territory. Polish demands in 1938 were very modest. You wouldn't even see them on European map

Few people will stand up for what the Soviets did, but you should at least realize your **** stinks too.

	19-04-2005 06:15									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos Hardly, Ther Germans blitzed it, and then the Russians blitzed it right back. If anything, it had some of the least fighting.

huh? We're talking about ww1, not 2.
And even when it comes to ww2, it's utter rubbish.

quote: Few people will stand up for what the Soviets did, but you should at least realize your **** stinks too.

Some, but not that much. WHat Czechoslovakia did earlier stinks more, and what USSR did stinks way more.

	19-04-2005 06:18									#44
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So everyone sticks.

	19-04-2005 11:18									#45
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quote: Originally posted by The Vagabond But to me it's no question that in 1945 we should have given their independence back to the three Baltic countries. It's shameful that we didn't.

	19-04-2005 11:20									#46
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quote: Originally posted by The Vagabond No special courage is required for that in the present situation. As compared with the "courage" to discriminate agaist Russian-speaking minorities in their countries, the refusal to visit Moscow looks just like a minor naughtiness.

Give me proof of this "discrimination" in Lithuania, smartass.

	19-04-2005 11:25									#47
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quote: Originally posted by The Vagabond I am sure if President Paksas (the only legitimate president of Lithuania) were still in power he would be coming to Moscow.

Russians making comments on legitimacy of any other government save most African, N.Korea and Belarus -