09-03-2005 12:16									#1
	The world in 1930 Remove this text

Here is my attempt - not very elegant, but I think we can still win from here.

AD 1920

Subvert Alexandria for 260 and destroy Egyptians. [My idea at this stage was that I didn't want to tie up units guarding Alexandria and that I would gain by splitting and weakening the Zulu empire.] Start building mech infantry to defend cities.

AD 1921

Continue clearing up polution. Start space ship parts in 6 cities.

AD 1922

More polution clearing. Now building space ship parts in 11 cities. Scientists warn of global warming.

AD 1923

More of the same. I send a spy to investigate Cardiff - it would probably fall to 14 howies and 2 spies. [At this stage I began to think it would be better to split the Celic empire.]18 cities now building space ship parts.

AD 1924

Provoke war with Zulus to get rid of units around Mpondo, etc. Capture Swazi for 1392. I accept cease fire and they accept peace treaty. I start to move transports, spies and howies towards an attack on Cardiff. 25 cities now building space ship parts. Sneak attack by Zulus loses us 5 units.

AD 1925

Capture Isipezi for 1025. I agree a cease fire and they agree a peace treaty. We now have 26 cities building space ship parts. Sneak attack by Zulus costs us 9 units including one of the transports.

AD 1926

Capture Naples for 626. I accept a cease fire, but Zulus decline peace treaty. 27 cities now constructing space ship parts. Zulus nuke Naples and capture it destroying 5 howies in the process. I accept a cease fire.

AD 1927

I screwed up the negotiations so I didn't provoke a war with the Zulus. Task force sails towards Cardiff with its fingers crossed. 28 cities now constructing space ship parts. Zulus sneak attack costing us some units, but no cities.

AD 1928

I capture Bapedi for 1500 gold and then agree a cease fire. The task force aimed at Cardiff lands and occupies a fort that is apparently not in the radius of any city. Zulus nuke Bapedi but don't capture it.

AD 1929

Try to provoke war with Celts, but they pay us 50 tribute. Capture Ruen for 1100 - Zulu government flees to Tours. Subvert Genoa for 1100 and then agree a cease fire. All treaties hold.

AD 1930

I try to provoke war with Celts but they pay a tribute of 62.

I think the position is OK but not great. Once the Vikings launch we should be able to capture their capital. The Celts will get tired of paying tribute soon enough at which point we will pick up three or more cities including their capital. We should be able to launch a very fast space ship, although I'm not sure which configuration to go for yet. The downside is that our forces against the Zulus (and Vikings) have become weak and scattered and will take a couple of turns to recover. AND there is danger of global warming I think we can cope with this - after all we want any win, but I'm not sure what effect it will have.

RJM at Sleeper's

Attachment: ap_a1930rjm.sav
This has been downloaded 5 time(s).

	14-03-2005 05:45									#2
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1920 - Investigate Alexandria with a Spy. No defenders. Take it with Paratroops. 16G and Iron-working. Start Coastal Fortress. Adjust city-support of units in many cities to consider in change to democracy is viable (it isn’t). Change Heliopolis to Coastal Fortress. Move units to Byblos and El-Armana. Set some Engineers to eliminating Pollution. Rush Mech Inf in Slim Buttes to start Coastal Fortress there and it gets city celebrating. Same in Little Bighorn. Get celebrating in Dead Buffalo. Rush SAM in Ryader for 152G. Rename Apolytonia as ArJayEm and rename Point of Rocks as Apolytonia to reflect our Capital.

1921 - 3 peace-loving RR Engineers were lost to Zulu Partisan and Air attacks. RIP, brave builders! Mpondo lost units to Zulu air attacks, but the city holds and will have Mech Inf unit next turn. Found a Transport near Swazi full of wounded units and bring them to Mpondo. They will go on to Intombe Barracks for healing.

1922 - Giza Spy sabatoges Zulu Aegis Cruiser and becomes Vet. Byblos Spy sabatoges Zulu Sub and becomes Vet. Transport of injured units moved to Intombe for healing. Decide it is time to start building SS units, as our military situation seems somewhat secure.

1923 - Global Warming Alert! Celts offer alliance if we will fight the Vikings, but I refuse so as to maintain spotless reputation. Byblos Spy sabotages another Zulu Sub. Giza Spy sabotages Zulu Aegis. 8 cities building SS units.

1924 - Completing construction projects to turn cities to SS building.

1925 - 9 cities building SS units. Hlobane attacked by several Stealth Bombers. Destroyer 3 in return using just-built Stealth Fighter and sent it to Intombe for healing. 4 more Stealth Bombers East of Zimbabwe and I’m worried about that. Front at Dinas Emrys worries me too. The Celts are going to attack soon.

1926 - Vikings take Zulu Isezi, which they have been attacking for several turns. Good, I’m glad to see them killing each other. 13 cities now building SS units.

1927 - Celts change to Fundy govt. We are now 1st in GNP; careful worker positioning and building has paid off. 25 cities building SS units.

1928 - Global temps rise and icecaps melt. Severe Drought! I’ve been using Engineers to reduce pollution, but it wasn’t enough. Hlobane fights off Cruiser attack. Zimbabwe takes hits from Zulu Stealth Bombers. Vikings are really going at the Zulus! We have a SS started. Our cease-fire with Celts ends. I’ve been trying to extend it, but they won’t even talk to me.

1929 - Sneak attack by Celts. Dinys Emrys hit hard. Kill 2 Celt units by Dinas Emrys with Mech Inf. 25 cities building SS units now.

1930 - Lose Dimrys Emrys to Celts, but gain cease fire with them. Build more SS units.

I spent our G so the Celts couldn’t demand it of us for peace, we have all the defenses in the most vulnerable cities (Walls, Coastal Fortress, SDI, and SAM), we have some Stealth Fighters, we are celebrating in most cities, we have Engineers and Spies, and we have either cease-fires or peace with all civs. I have a couple of nukes tucked away or near completion. We are gaining 540G per turn.

This is about the best I can possibly do. We now need to decide which save to use for the next set of turns. Look at both RJM’s and this one and choose the better overall position. We’ll go from there after that. It’s not a competition, just whichever one seems best to use. As Dan Rather used to say “Courage”.

Attachment: ap_a1930cb.sav
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

	14-03-2005 12:19									#3
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I am dumb - I should have investigated Alexandria before bribing it. Or at least noticed that it didn't have a flag.

I'll down load the save and look at it later today.

As far as the ice caps melting is concerned, I doubt that that can be avoided in the long run - the little sun thing was bright yellow throughout my turn set as well.

BTW, I started a discussion in the strategy thread on what happens when we capture an enemy city. The majority opinion is that we were lucky to bring down the Zulu space ship and that normally if the AI civ can pay to move its capital, the space ship stays in the sky I think this means that we have to win the space race.

RJM at Sleeper's

	15-03-2005 11:40									#4
	Got spare money?

I have a problem with your save. I can see every Viking city - ie when I click on a Viking city, instead of getting the demanded commodities, the city screen opens up as if I had investigated it with a spy. The problem may be that my files have become corrupt. I was experimenting with a scenario on Sunday and changed a lot of the .txt files, so I may have made some changes that caused this problem. (Remember that we are technically playing a scenario.) Anyway, I will ask for a clean set of files in the scenario section - or perhaps you or some other kind reader can post them here. I think I particularly need rules.txt and labels.txt for MGE.

Just in case the problem is not with my set upi, can you look at your save and see if it has somehow become corrupt?

Cheers,

RJM at Sleeper's

PS Thanks for the new name for our old capital.

	15-03-2005 23:42									#5
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I have not been able to play since before Christmas so it has been heartening for me that you fellows are soldiering on. But, to quote the "Star Wars" adage, "I have a bad feeling about this."

Forensics:
-"show city grid" is on, but does not display the grid
-clicking on a foreign city "reveals" everything about the city
-clicking "enter" to end the turn "reveals" every AI unit movement
-clicking "cheat mode -> reveal map" gives as default "no special view" rather than "entire map"

There may be another way these things can happen, but for sure, this will happen if the player has turned on (cheat mode -> reveal map) at some point during the turn so that the "entire map" is revealed.

Perhaps there was some "testing" that took place to study an intrigueing point about one thing or another; or, it was done for some other reason that seemed "valid" at that moment. Whatever.

I suggest the post be deleted and be played again, because, as rjm wonders, I think the save has "somehow become corrupt."

Play on....

Monk

	16-03-2005 05:25									#6
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I'm not sure what happened with the save. RJM's 1920 save shows only the city commodities demanded, yet my save of that same file same year shows the city screen.

Later during play, while I was moving a freight and seeking a nearby city demanding gems, I saw that the city screen appeared, but did not know why, so I turned to the Trade Advisor to identify a demanding city. I also noticed I was seeing distant AI moves, but didn't think about that very much (very boring and time-consuming).

Definitely, we cannot use this save. I will reload the game software CD and see if the problem reoccurs when I have a chance to replay some turns on the weekend.

Should I really delete the post with the save file?

	16-03-2005 12:32									#7
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With so few active players, it is probably not essential that you delete it, but you should probably do something to avoid confusion in case someone starts to play with it before reading the subsequent posts - ie if you don't delete the whole post, delete the saved game or edit the post to draw attention to the problem.

Pity, since I think the game can be won from the position you left. I think that it would be legitimate for you to play again once you have re-loaded your software. If you do so, you should probably try to play the same way ... BUT ...

I wonder why you have so many fortified units in cities. You have fortified howies, spies, transports and (IIRC) a fortified stealth fighter. The defensive value of these units is so low that (IMHO) it is not worth fortifying them. All these units could be taking an active part in our confrontation with the Zulus. And there are many fortified howies on our southern island that could be transported to the former Zulu lands and make a significant difference to the hostilities there.

Perhaps you always fortify units at the end of a turn, but if so, it's worth pointing this out to anyone who might use your save.

Cheers,

RJM at Sleeper's

	16-03-2005 12:36									#8
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk I have not been able to play since before Christmas so it has been heartening for me that you fellows are soldiering on. Monk

Sorry that you have not been able to play, but it is heartening to us to hear from you. When you are unable to post for some time we feel anxious about the state of your health.

I think the fact that we can play on with such a good chance of winning is down to some really good turnsets from you earlier in the game.

All the best,

RJM at Sleeper's

	16-03-2005 20:51									#9
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quote: Originally posted by rjmatsleepers Sorry that you have not been able to play, but it is heartening to us to hear from you. When you are unable to post for some time we feel anxious about the state of your health. I think the fact that we can play on with such a good chance of winning is down to some really good turnsets from you earlier in the game. All the best, RJM at Sleeper's

Thank you very much. I appreciate your kind words. I wish it were possible for me to participate more, but, it is what it is.

And, elaborating on your point about too many units fortified in cities there is this to consider. In an age where spies and nukes are afoot, I think extra units should be put in forts. That way, you won't lose all to a surprise nuke and may be able to take back the city easier. On the other hand, if there are many extra units lazing about, one might ask why they are not attacking. The AI can not deal with continuous, relentless attack. The more AI cities you take, and the more quickly, the greater is the likelihood of keeping a net advantage after they have used their turn.

Good luck.

Monk

	17-03-2005 12:19									#10
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk And, elaborating on your point about too many units fortified in cities there is this to consider. In an age where spies and nukes are afoot, I think extra units should be put in forts. That way, you won't lose all to a surprise nuke and may be able to take back the city easier.

Good point - the less vulnerable we are to a surprise attack the better. BTW, I get the impression that the AI is more likely to attack if there are units that seem to be easy picking. Is that just my paranoia, or has anyone else seen this?

quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk On the other hand, if there are many extra units lazing about, one might ask why they are not attacking. The AI can not deal with continuous, relentless attack. The more AI cities you take, and the more quickly, the greater is the likelihood of keeping a net advantage after they have used their turn. Good luck. Monk

Another good point. And once we launch our space ship, the AI will get even more frisky than it is at the moment. That's not a major problem because the battlefield will be well away from our capital. But if we are in a position at that stage to launch a "continuous relentless attack" it will make our life so much easier - particularly if with each attack we can not only keep our net advantage in terms of cities, but also maintain a large positive balance in terms of units.

I think we now have the resources to build a 33-8-8-1-1-1 space ship very quickly using our southern cities. If we are short of money, I'm sure the Zulus or Vikings will be able to provide some. In my experience, if the AI is first to launch, it will go for a 15-3-3-1-1-1 which will give us 10 (?) years in which to complete our ship. I think the biggest risk at the moment is if the first AI launches a slow ship, one of the others may build a faster one.

RJM at Sleeper's

	17-03-2005 22:56									#11
	Put an end to popups!

Do I need ot DL a Scenario to play the save?
I could get in a turn tonight just for variety.

I am away on weekends but Mon - Thurs evenings is PLAY TIME

	18-03-2005 04:25									#12
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Well, it has become evident to me that I revealed the map sometime in the initial turn. The results could not have occurred any other way. I don’t remember doing it, but I did get so drunk that night that I passed out on my bed, so I wouldn’t remember much. When I woke up, the computer, the TV, and most of the house lights were on, and there was thawed food in the microwave. I had hoped there could be some other explanation, but I can’t see one, so the fault must be mine.

Regardless of the circumstances, I must withdraw from the game. Best of luck with the game. I’m sure you folks will pull it off and get the SS to AC!

	18-03-2005 11:04									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Zedd Do I need ot DL a Scenario to play the save? I could get in a turn tonight just for variety. I am away on weekends but Mon - Thurs evenings is PLAY TIME

There's no need to download a scenario. Simply download the latest game save which is ap_a1920rjm.sav in the "world in 1914 thread". You can then play 10 years and post your result. The game appears as a scenario with cheat mode registered. This is because of the way the map was set up. It is intended to be a regular game in all other respects, although it appears that there are some subtle differences. For example, the AI civs can have more than one capital at the same time.

Good luck.

RJM at Sleeper's

	18-03-2005 11:11									#14
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear Regardless of the circumstances, I must withdraw from the game. Best of luck with the game. I’m sure you folks will pull it off and get the SS to AC!

I don't think it is necessary for you to withdraw - if you can't remember doing it, you can't have gained much advantage Actually, this late in the game it's difficult to see much to be gained in revealing the map and investigating every AI city. We can already see most of the world and we can send a spy to any city close to us, so the benefit is very small.

IMHO you can replay from 1920. You probably should not allow your play to be influenced too much by anything you do remember from your previous effort.

RJM at Sleeper's

	18-03-2005 16:24									#15
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by cavebear Regardless of the circumstances, I must withdraw from the game. Best of luck with the game. I’m sure you folks will pull it off and get the SS to AC!

Sounds like a cop out to me

I don't think it is necessary to leave the game, I was going to download form 1930 and put in my two cents worth

	18-03-2005 21:21									#16
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

CB, you are a long time supporter and player of the Demo games and Well respected here. If you say you can play on without any problems then I am sure we will all support that.

In other words "Get your A** back in the game!"

	27-03-2005 11:28									#17
	Suffering from ads?

Does anyone want to continue this game or are we going to let it die with the winning post in sight?

RJM at Sleeper's

	28-03-2005 22:56									#18
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I will play a turn tonight if possible, I felt that with the "winning turn" in sight one of the great players that have kept this game going should finish up.

IIRC its 10 turns right?

	29-03-2005 11:58									#19
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Zedd I will play a turn tonight if possible, I felt that with the "winning turn" in sight one of the great players that have kept this game going should finish up. IIRC its 10 turns right?

10 turns from 1920 to 1930 would be good. This would give us 2 saves to choose between. (But at this stage any interest from other citizens is acceptable.)

RJM at Sleeper's

	29-03-2005 23:36									#20
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havn't felt well the last couple days and when I got home last night I crashed before playin ANY civ

Feel completely restored today (in part due to the 10 hours of sleep) and will have the sav ready to post early AM tomorrow.

	30-03-2005 12:15									#21
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Good luck - and no need to rush if you're not feeling up to it. We've been playing this game for a while now, so an extra day or two won't do any harm.

RJM at Sleeper's

	31-03-2005 17:58									#22
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I DL'd the wrong file!

I just played up to 1930 from the 1920.sav file.



I will get the CORRECT sav file and kick some Zulu booty tonight.

	01-04-2005 11:07									#23
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The 1920 save is the correct save. Its full name is ap_a1920rjm.sav and it's in the "world in 1914 thread.

If that's the save you used, do post your results.

Anyway, good luck.

RJM at Sleeper's

	01-04-2005 18:33									#24
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%$@#$#@

Sorry, I played your sav file up till 1936 and fell asleep, and of course I didn't bring the sav for the 1920 turn.

I am leaving for the weekend today but I will try to get net access to upload the other sav file.

edit: removed the unnecessary bable

Last edited by Zedd on 05-04-2005 at 16:52

	01-04-2005 18:42									#25
	Got spare money?

Beware the maniacle Zedd, playing games willy-Nilly all over the place.

Edit: removed the attachment to clear up confusion

Last edited by Zedd on 06-04-2005 at 17:04

	02-04-2005 10:58									#26
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Zedd, I'm slightly confused at the moment, but probably things will become a bit clearer when you post your other save. Anyway, I've downloaded the 1936 save, but I'm not sure whether I should be looking at it yet.

Oh! I've just noticed your posts were dated the 1st April. I wonder if that is significant.

RJM at Sleepers

	05-04-2005 17:10									#27
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Apologies RJM, and no the only fool was me. I will start fresh with the CORRECT save.

Summary will follow...

Its 1930, a few units have moved but nothing has been rush bought so we have a little over 2000G in the piggy bank.

WHERE WE STAND
Egyptians are destroyed...
Zulus are destroyed...
Persians have been removed from the south west most island....(but the SiouX remain)
Celts have lost 4 cities, 3 were captured, 1 destroyed...
We are friendly with Vikings but they will probably launch any time now and the Celts are not very far behind them.

!GLOBAL WARMING!
I used a Nuke only once and only becouse my spy revealed about 20 units stacked in the city and my precious vet howies were all weak and voulnerable.
The Vikings and Zulus however have no quams about nuking each other and seem to enjoy it as much as fireworks.

SPACE SHIP
Our ship is not started yet, we have pieces in the making but they are not very far along I am afraid.
My suggestion would be to use the massive force in former Zululand and start accumulating Viking cities, the vikings are sitting on 20,000 gold and the plunder from some of those cities could pay for the space ship.....The down side to that is the Mural on thier palace wall says " 2 NUKE"

CONCERNS
I was unable to sustain city growth and we have alot of size 3-5 cities that should grow. My main effort was concentrated on war fronts and production as Love the king days were not generating the growth.

	06-04-2005 03:51									#28
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And the save file. Sorry for the goof up.

Attachment: ap_a1930.sav
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

	06-04-2005 11:26									#29
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I've downloaded the save and will look at it later today. (I don't have a copy of Civ on this machine.)

As far as spaceships are concerned, my thoughts were going in 2 directions.

a) If the AI launch, we can try to bring it back by a sustained attack on their capital(s). However, I'm not sure about the conditions under which the space ship will return. It may be that if they can move their capital, the ship stays in the sky. In which case we use plan b.

b) If the AI launches first it tends to use a 15-3-3-1-1-1 configuration. We rapidly build a 33-16-16-1-1-1 and overtake it.

Anyway, I'll comment in more detail once I've seen your save - BTW I presume that the Zulu empire did not split. That may help us in dealing with the Celts and Vikings.

RJM at Sleeper's

	06-04-2005 17:04									#30
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The Zulu capitol moved 3 times and there were no splits that I could see.

The Vikings are close to launching a space ship and they have stockpiled enough cash to move the capitol several times, I think plan B is going to be our most prudent option. Wage War with the Vikings as a "fund raiser" and loot some of thier cash along with some cities and use it to rush some space ship parts in the south while the former zululand builds howies and spies for the war.

In my save we are a bit weak on the celtic front, which needs to be corrected quickly. Both celts and vikings are ready to use nukes on the first forward city wityout an SDI so those will need to be a consideration, but we have some airports, port facilities, universities,librarys, etc. that could be sold off for some $$$