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GodKing
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Detroit
Feb 2002
time: 00:29
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Here are my thoughts - post yours, will ya?
PAL is thinking of war in 40 turns.
We can probably extend that to 50, WITH GOOD CAUSE.
We have theo in 3 turns. Next is education. We will research that at 60-70% in 15 turns (including our pop growth and new cities). This means we will net about 30 gold total in that 15 turns. Bad. If we drop our science down to 50-60%, we will net about 400 gold in the next 20 turns.
Now, if BAT is on board, we do the following – stop research after theo. Or, at least, slow it down to 20-40% or so. We backtrack and research items that have been skipped. Chivalry, Monarchy, Banking (which will be skipped), Music, etc. We start making about 55+ GPT. We spend half of it for the next 15 turns on markets, libraries & courthouses. Harbors, granaries and barracks we build normally.
Under this scenario, BAT, who per PAL has a faster research rate than we do, will begin researching Education, Astronomy and Navigation. After the discovery of Navigation, we will begin the war in earnest. We will be primarily a gold financier for PAL (and to a lesser extent, BAT). We will follow PAL with our defensive units, and we will not ourselves be at war (unless they make it so) so we can provide intelligence.
Under this scenario, PAL will need a fund of 3000 gold to upgrade their units. As they will have the unit support costs, it will be difficult to attain (although they do have more and larger cities to bear the costs better than we do). So, lets assume we supply 50%, or 1500 gold. By dropping science down to 10% now, and assuming no growth or change in costs to us (not going to happen) we will generate 1560 gold in the next 15 turns. Easy, as our cities are growing, our settlers are settling, and our markets are marketing. Now, we need to find a balance between getting gold and researching. This also assumes that we BAT will take over the research position that we were to occupy.
We also need to decide on what sort of military we wish to send over to their lands. I would suggest that we upgrade all our boats and then some. We currently have 1 galley and 3 curraghs. We should have a minimum of 6 caravels for transport of our troops, with 2-4 more for costal patrolling of our lands. Caravels hold 3 units each, which means 18 units in our initial assault, with more in follow up waives as necessary. This will include all our current offensive might (4 swords) and however many hoplites and muskets. We should have a minimum of 10 units for homeland defense, and 4 fast movers for defense. This means that we will have (if we increase a few of our workers as we should) unit support of 30-32 units, while having 55-60 units to support, so we will be paying say close to 60 gpt in support costs. Better wait until we need the units until we build them in other words.
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ormuzd
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This means the chat with BAT is urgent. We should try to make it this weekend
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ormuzd
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quote:
These statistics are encouraging. The Top Secret invasion of GWT is scheduled to take place in about 30 Turns. Depending on how much help we can count on from our game-long ally APO, the invasion will be launched from home waters sometime between Turn 150 and Turn 160.
What can APO offer to contribute to the war effort? We need to know this information so that we can round out our plans more thoroughly.
What could you have ready in terms of gold to give us by turn 150, 155 or 160?
Given that your Marketplaces are starting to come online, you should be in good position to reduce Science research and save gold to give PAL for the big Cavalry upgrade. We are considering that this game should be won soon after MT is researched and that it may make sense to stop building Libraries at this point to focus on gold and units production. Marketplaces still make sense then.
What could you contribute in terms of an occupying force to guard the flanks and police rebellious cities in GWT's land?
Hoplites work well for this. They are cheap and still make great defensive units in this era. We would like to see some APO galleys sailing with or closely behind our invasion fleet. Some members of our team are looking for means of verification or assurances that APO will not build a large offensive force at this time.
What techs could you have completed by Turn 150? Turn 160?
Technology could be put on the back-burner now and given secondary priority. We have found good ocean routes for our four-move galleys and will not need Carvels for the invasion. If we focus on units and gold for upgrades, we see a clear window of opportunity to eliminate a second civ together and move on to the finals.
Let us strike while the iron is hot and use this strong alliance to it's best advantage. Let us coordinate strategy and begin to work out details of the upcoming coalition war on GWT. GWT is in last place in production and GNP and they are asking to be eliminated.
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Any thoughts?
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GodKing
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Detroit
Feb 2002
time: 00:29
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Here is what I posted over on BCS
quote:
One of our scenarios that we always considered from the beginning was using our traits of science and gold to fund an ally to make the war for us. Thus, you can understand the debates we had when we discovered the military civ and the growth civ both on our landmass, both close to us, and both wanting to ally with us. I am glad we made the right decision on who to ally with.
Now, here are a few generalities.
We have theology complete in 2 turns. As you will not need the movement generated by Navigation, we can reduce our science spending significantly – to something on the lines of 10-20%, assuming BAT doesn’t research Education faster for us. On such a scenario, we will be making approximately 100 gold per turn now, and more as we continue to grow. In 10 turns we will be making about 130 gpt, and in 15 turns around 150 gpt, if we remove the military units from our queues.
However, we will not be able to provide any military support. Why, because we will need the 4 movement rate or we will suicide (or so we understand from what you have said).
Now, how much of your force do you expect to land at once, and how much on a follow up force? This is important, as it determines the number of galleys you need. If you send over 16-20 cavalry in the first wave, they take a city, you rush a barracks, or donate the city to us, and we rush defenders (this is the only way I see us joining in militarily), then your fleet heads back for the next set of units. If they are stationed nearby (out of view in neutral or BAT lands) so you are not spending all the time traveling, but only a portion of it, you get them to your new city, upgrade them then, and continue attacking. This minimizes the amount of time you need to attack, and maximizes the amount of time we have to generate gold. 3rd wave, if necessary, follows the same route.
We would do minimal research, just in case things don’t work out according to plan so we don’t completely loose our edge. Education is a big tech for us, as the universities it generates will be key to us providing major tech if for some reason we make it to the next age.
We can do the gold in 2 ways. 1 is we stockpile it and you send us requests for it when you need it. 2, and something I would prefer, is (post theo) we start sending you 100 gpt. The balance we spend on buying markets, courthouses, and harbors (the gold makers). You use the gpt you are getting to massively increase your science rate (4-5 turn techs anybody) and then back off prior to getting cavalry, stockpiling it all and timing your completion with the end of your horsie construction. This will work for 20 turns, when we will re-asses everything.
60 units you are proposing is serious overkill. I know you like to make sure, but Cav is a far superior unit to anything they will have, even if it is muskets behind walls. If BAT joins in, and diverts the enemy away from where you are attacking… well, it is game, set, match. Look at the stats already, you already have a better military than they do. I urge you to please reduce your costs (remember, workers and galleys cost support as well). IF you want, we can gladly take your workers, turn them into slaves, and then eliminate their support if it gets to something like that (pain to coordinate, so let’s not go there unless we need to).
If we are going to do this quick, then let’s do it quick and dirty instead of perfectly. Other than 1-2 port cities, why don’t you plan on burning and pillaging? Take nothing, kill all, and remove the possibility of counterattack and resurrection. If this sounds reasonable, we can probably attack in the next 25-30 turns. What ya think?
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10-03-2005 09:47
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