10-03-2005 19:23									#1
	Unit Design Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Greetings...I've recently started re-playing this great game and was wondering....

Is a unit better at defense if it is say a 2-2-1 infantry or if it just a 1-2-1 infantry? Or is it the same? Seems to me that the offensive ability doesn't matter on defense.

Thx

	10-03-2005 19:57									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

It is totally irrelevant for defense, what offensive rating the unit has. I usually design my defensive units with good weapons, though, because I like to attack my assailants pre-emptively.

But yeah, for pure defense, 1-2-1 would be enough (assuming that your opponent doesn't have 16-10-4, of course )

Asmodean

	10-03-2005 21:30									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

What Asmodean said.

Deciding to build a best-best-1 versus a 1-best-1 is really a cost-benefit thing that depends on the circumstances.

Since your 2-2-1 has no more survivability thatn a 1-2-1 but is more expensive, I tend toward getting the less expensive unit. My armies are generally of offensive and defensive units with very few "best-best" in the mix.

The exceptions are
1.if I have a support issue
2. if I have a decent tech advantage OR
3. In specific instances-- the ability to upgrade is your pal


To go further, I usually find that building a cheaper unit and then upgrading to be an effective method, in particular if that unit has a several turn trip to the battlefield

	10-03-2005 22:13									#4
	Remove this text

It also depends on reactor availability.
It seems to me, that a 2-4-1*2 unit is as expensive as a 1-4-1*2 unit.
On higher reactor qualities, this goes even so, that a 10-12-1*4 unit is as expensive as a 1-12-1*4 unit.
I am talking mineral wise.
On upgrading, strangely the unit that costs the same in minerals (10-12-1*4) is more expensive in upgrading from a scout patrol.
So in my guess, upgrading also takes the attack value into account, but that is not the topic here.

	10-03-2005 22:49									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

The cost of an upgrade:
10 energy per mineral row the new unit costs to produce
10 energy per level you upgrade the weapon
10 energy per level you upgrade the armor
Chassis must stay the same, as well as any noncombat packages, Psi, and the artillery ability

	11-03-2005 00:46									#6
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Major Guz It also depends on reactor availability. It seems to me, that a 2-4-1*2 unit is as expensive as a 1-4-1*2 unit. On higher reactor qualities, this goes even so, that a 10-12-1*4 unit is as expensive as a 1-12-1*4 unit. I am talking mineral wise. On upgrading, strangely the unit that costs the same in minerals (10-12-1*4) is more expensive in upgrading from a scout patrol. So in my guess, upgrading also takes the attack value into account, but that is not the topic here.

Obviously you always build the best unit available at a given mineral cost. But there are times when you have to decide whether you want to build a 4-3-2 or can you get by with a 4-1-2 or is the tactical situation such that it makes sense to build a 1-3-2 etc etc. Personally I tend to build more numerous less expensive units and may only create the super unit early if it gets elite or something

	11-03-2005 13:39									#7
	Put an end to popups!

I also tend to build more units rather than more capable units early on. Once I'm fabulously wealthy / productive I can afford to build many super capable units. At that point the limiting factor is the number of build queues I have.

	11-03-2005 19:37									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

For me it also depends if you are in a vendetta situation or not. If I am I usually have at least one attack unit in my bases either a best best unit or a best 1 that way you can kill two units a turn one you attack and one that he attacks you with. This is of course along with any other defense the situation warrents. Having your cities within three spaces of each other and connected by roads is your friend!

	11-03-2005 20:58									#9
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by dacole For me it also depends if you are in a vendetta situation or not. If I am I usually have at least one attack unit in my bases either a best best unit or a best 1 that way you can kill two units a turn one you attack and one that he attacks you with.

The problem though is that your best-best unit may be heavily damaged in winning the attack ( if the opponents unit had decent armour) and unable to withstand the counterattack.

Personally I tend to build far more attackers like 4-1-2s than defenders like 1-3-2s. I generally prefer to be attacking and the AI will be idiotic with his tactical use of units so its easy to kill lots

	12-03-2005 01:38									#10
	Suffering from ads?

True but when that happens you just designate the other unit as the defender (or better yet have it designated that way already) then it gets attacked rather than the wounded unit which will heal quickly being in a city.

	18-03-2005 03:01									#11
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Thanks for all the great input!!!

Now for another question in the same vein....

Does it matter if you put armor on a jet or copter?

And is psi armor worth its metal...so to speak

Again thx for all the input...I sweat this game is STILL the best!!!

	18-03-2005 04:17									#12
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Armor on planes/copters is useless, as it raises their cost greatly and provides very little benefit. Psi armor is rarely helpful since psi offense beats psi defense, and since trance can't be coupled with psi armor. If you have the Neural Amplifier or your opponent is giving you trouble with nerve gas or the like (and the game hasn't already ended), psi defenders may be worthwhile. Earlier in the game, mind worms form a useful part of an army, as they screw over free marketers and blunt opponents' technological advantages.

	18-03-2005 12:27									#13
	Inflate your Upload Space

Psi defense is great for countering population-wrecking nerve gas attacks. Its especially effective for Gaians running Green, with sensor nearby and Neural Amplifier built in one of bases

Psi units do not need to be upgraded at all at this setup.

Having high morale unit production capability also helps, otherwise children creches are your friend.

However, psi armour comes only late in game, and its substitute - mind worms - are expensive and cannot be given clean ability. Still - a good tradeoff for x-missle needlejet

	19-03-2005 05:18									#14
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by sentry33 Psi defense is great for countering population-wrecking nerve gas attacks. Its especially effective for Gaians running Green, with sensor nearby and Neural Amplifier built in one of bases

err last I checked planet rating was relevant on offense but not on defense so the morganites running FM would be just as good as the gaians running green

I could be wrong but unless psi armour works differently than native combat, I don't think so.

	19-03-2005 05:21									#15
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Jetmech Does it matter if you put armor on a jet or copter?

It matters but not enough to do it. Armor only applies wither when your plane is being attacked by a SAM ground unit or an interceptor plane. At pretty much no point in the game can the armour allow your plane to survive even a single attack and the cost is so prohibitively high as to not be worth it.

Throw a little armour on if you can get some for free, but otherwise, don't bother-- its not worth it

	19-03-2005 13:01									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: err last I checked planet rating was relevant on offense but not on defense so the morganites running FM would be just as good as the gaians running green

hmm.. i thought its difference in the planet ratings of attacker and defender that counts, but more likely than not i am wrong here.

As for armouring planes - while armour also helps against artillery, it does not matter any either. Do what flubber said - put it there only if its free, and you do not plan on upgrading plane later.

Once I considered using armoured planes as defensive units (1-best-10), but its not very cost effective - you will be better off defending if you attack enemies as they advance.

	19-03-2005 23:08									#17
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by sentry33 hmm.. i thought its difference in the planet ratings of attacker and defender that counts, but more likely than not i am wrong here.

See this thread

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=112375

for a discussion of how planet ratings affect attack and defence in psi combat.