14-03-2005 14:37									#1
	Possibly dumb question Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I've been playing a PBEM game with the Consciousness and for some reason their tech steal ability isn't working. I've tried to look up an answer everywhere as to why and can't find anything, so I figured I'd ask here. I do have the latest version of AX (2.0), so I don't think that's the problem. I do have it cracked so I don't have to put the CD in the drive every time so could that be causing the problem? I don't have spoils of war enabled in the rules, but that would mean that every faction would get tech steal if I enabled it, correct? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

-Bop

	14-03-2005 17:10									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I'm not sure, but I think somewhere along the line the wrong Factual text file was added to the game. Essentially if you have the "cyborg.txt" file dated Sept. 15, 1999, then your Faction won't have the tech steal ability. You need the cyborg.txt file dated Nov. 16 1999. FYI.
I've attached the correct file here for you.
btw when did you get your SMACX disks - this might help narrow down the problem, as you probably won't be the only one asking this question.


D

Attachment: cyborg.zip
This has been downloaded 6 time(s).

	14-03-2005 17:12									#3
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

edit - dual post.....

	14-03-2005 20:32									#4
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The Cyborg TECHSTEAL ability didn't work in the original release of SMAX, but was fixed by the patch (version 2.0). I use the "no CD crack" and have no problems with the Cyborgs.

I don't know the details of how PBEM works, but could this problem be caused by your opponent using an unpatched version of SMAX?

	14-03-2005 20:42									#5
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There is also a possibility of 2000/xp patch installed for both or not or only one installed. I dont know...

	14-03-2005 21:29									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Petek The Cyborg TECHSTEAL ability didn't work in the original release of SMAX, but was fixed by the patch (version 2.0). I use the "no CD crack" and have no problems with the Cyborgs.

The cyborg.txt file dated Sept 15th 1999 didn't have the comment "TECHSTEAL, 0" in it, which meant it didn't reference the terranx file anyways. The later Nov 16th 1999 cyborg.txt file did.

quote: Originally posted by Petek I don't know the details of how PBEM works, but could this problem be caused by your opponent using an unpatched version of SMAX?

Depends on who set up the game. But basically I believe the issue lies in the text file, not the terranx file. FYI.


D

	14-03-2005 22:49									#7
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Darsnan The cyborg.txt file dated Sept 15th 1999 didn't have the comment "TECHSTEAL, 0" in it, which meant it didn't reference the terranx file anyways. The later Nov 16th 1999 cyborg.txt file did. Depends on who set up the game. But basically I believe the issue lies in the text file, not the terranx file. FYI. D

We're both talking about the same problem/fix. The readme for the 2.0 patch specifically refers to fixing the TECHSTEAL problem.

After thinking about this some more, I think that TECHSTEAL worked in the original release of SMAX, but was broken by the first patch (which omitted the TECHSTEAL variable from the alphax.txt file). At that point, adding TECHSTEAL to the cyborg.txt file had no effect. Patch 2.0 corrected all such problems. This was all discussed here, but the forum archives don't go back that far.

	14-03-2005 23:30									#8
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Petek At that point, adding TECHSTEAL to the cyborg.txt file had no effect. Patch 2.0 corrected all such problems. .

I'm going to have to beg to differ. Essentially because the reason I immediately knew what the issue was is because I had that problem recently in a PBEM I set up. Essentially Rubin was playing Cyborgs, and he didn't have the techsteal ability. I traced it down to the fact that the cyborg.txt file in my SMACX PBEM subdirectory didn't have the techsteal option in it. I verified this by playing the Cyborgs in an SP, and they did not have the ability. When I replaced the cyborg.txt file with the later version, they then once again had the ability. FYI.


D

	15-03-2005 00:28									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

You are correct that NOW the TECHSTEAL option in cyborg.txt has the desired effect. I was trying to say in my last post that, after the first SMAX patch but before the second one, this was not the case. The first patch inadvertently removed the TECHSTEAL variable from alphax.txt. At THAT point, adding TECHSTEAL to cyborg.txt had no effect. The 2.0 patch restored the missing variable to alphax.txt.

My point is to keep this "history" in current posts, since the old files where this was discussed have been deleted.

See the 1/18/2000 post from Jeffrey Morris of Firaxis here:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group...45962e4ad830a0c

	15-03-2005 00:44									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

what does the cyborg techsteal option do? I can't remember.

I never cared for them because of their growth rating, but maybe I should give them another shot.

	15-03-2005 01:10									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Dissident what does the cyborg techsteal option do? I can't remember. .

They get to steal one unknown tech each time they conquer a base.


D

	15-03-2005 02:07									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Thanks guys. I did have the Sept 15 cyborg.txt, so I replaced it. Since I have you all here, I also had a question about Domai. To the best of my knowledge, I've never had a rioting base go to his faction. Does a base have to riot for several turns to go to the drone faction, or is there a possibility on the first riot? Is there possibly something wrong there as well? I know the patch notes say both these problems were fixed with the 2.0 patch, but now I'm curious. Frankly, I'm not sure if I want to fix it because if there is a chance on the first riot, I don't want to have to check every base for growth every turn and adjust the psych accordingly since that seems more annoying than fun. But like I said, I am curious.

Thanks again for the txt file.

	15-03-2005 02:31									#13
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I believe it can go to the drones on the first turn of rioting. I'm pretty sure that happened to me once.

Though when I play the drones, I never get any cities ceded to me because of rioting.

	15-03-2005 02:47									#14
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by DiBiddilyBop Since I have you all here, I also had a question about Domai. To the best of my knowledge, I've never had a rioting base go to his faction. Does a base have to riot for several turns to go to the drone faction, or is there a possibility on the first riot?

Darned good question. I've only seen it a couple of times. Essentially I think the game in SP is weighted against the human player, and so you will never see this. However in MP I know its an accepted rule now that you cannot induce a desired base into defecting to another Faction, as you can then just probe rape the heck out of it.
The drones.txt file should also be labeled November 16 1999. FYI in case you've got something different.


D

	15-03-2005 02:50									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Looks like my drones.txt is September 15. I'm wondering if for some reason I have the AX 2.0 patch downloaded but not installed since I seem to have the 2.0 readme, but things that were supposed to be fixed with that patch don't seem to be there. Hmmm...

I just kinda fear doing any updates or anything in case I have to reinstall and we all know what a pain in the butt that is. Not sure I remember how to fix everything to get it to work on XP again.

	15-03-2005 02:55									#16
	Put an end to popups!

From what I understand:

If Domai is not in the game, and a base roits for more than one round, it has a chance to revolt to any of the factions equally.

If Domai IS in the game and a city revolts it is a 75% chance it will go to the Drones, and the remaining 25% is split between the other factions. Domai does not increase the chance of a revolt, just who the revolting city is going to.

This could actually be used to the players advantage if you happen to know that Domai is ahead in the tech race. You could purposefully let a base revolt to the Drones then probe rape the $h!t out of it.

	15-03-2005 03:04									#17
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Yeah, definitely my stupidity here. I checked my folder and there was a patch.zip in there. I guess the patch installer unzips the patch.zip into the folder along with a 2.0 readme, but doesn't install anything until you open that patch. So... problem should be solved now (I think). Thanks for the help guys.

	15-03-2005 04:46									#18
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quote: Originally posted by livid imp From what I understand: This could actually be used to the players advantage if you happen to know that Domai is ahead in the tech race. You could purposefully let a base revolt to the Drones then probe rape the $h!t out of it.

yup and thats precisely the behavior that PBEMers want to disallow. It makes getting ahead in tech pretty futile if all an opponent has to do is let some size one base in his interior revolt. If they sabatoge your production each turn, you can't even build a scout to obliterate the base

	15-03-2005 10:30									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by DiBiddilyBop I also had a question about Domai. To the best of my knowledge, I've never had a rioting base go to his faction. Does a base have to riot for several turns to go to the drone faction, or is there a possibility on the first riot? Is there possibly something wrong there as well? I know the patch notes say both these problems were fixed with the 2.0 patch, but now I'm curious. Frankly, I'm not sure if I want to fix it because if there is a chance on the first riot, I don't want to have to check every base for growth every turn and adjust the psych accordingly since that seems more annoying than fun. But like I said, I am curious.

If you play as Domai in single player, you probably never will see another faction's base join you after riots. I know that I never have, and I play the Drones more than any other faction. That doesn't mean that this feature is broken. The AI doesn't allow riots to last long enough for the base to switch sides.

I once tested this feature by setting up a hotseat game in which I controlled both the Hive and the Drones. I deliberately let the Hive bases remain in riots for multiple turns. The Hive had 9 bases and 8 of them all went over to the Drones. Only the Hive HQ remained in Yang's control.

As I recall, each Hive base rioted for at least 5 or 6 turns before joining the Drones.

	17-03-2005 10:54									#20
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by livid imp This could actually be used to the players advantage if you happen to know that Domai is ahead in the tech race. You could purposefully let a base revolt to the Drones then probe rape the $h!t out of it.

Which would be extremely rare

There a GOOD reason why Domai has -2 research

Playing as Domai most of the time myself, I hoped to see the AI eventually lose one of its bases to me, but alas it never happens. I had always assumed the feature didnt work at all, but thsi thread proves otherwise. Interesting to know

	18-03-2005 17:06									#21
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

-2 research isn't so bad, there's only one tech you really need to get yourself : Planetary Networks. Probe teams for the win!