17-03-2005 14:54									#1
	MOO2 Ground Invasion Advice Needed Put an end to popups!

I am quite new to Master of Orion 2, and I've won a couple of easy games. I want to try out an aspect of the game I've ignored for a while.

My favourite way to play is to just bombard them all and move on (or destroy the entire planet). I've been playing with the Elerians mostly, and should a planet fall I just go right back and mind control it. The AI rarely goes for my worlds though while I'm attacking theirs.

I would like to try out a new race, which means I may need some new invasion strategies, but I'm a guy who has never even built a Barracks on one of his planets!

Even beginners tips would be helpful.

Thanks.

	17-03-2005 19:10									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

The scorched planet policy is certainly a valuable tactic. I use it in the endgame when facing a technically, militarily and industrially superior opponent. A widely reported strategy is a multipronged attack: this succeeds because the AI is narrow-minded: as you've observed, it concentrates its forces on attack or on defence. In the middle and latter game, fleets are increasingly stronger than planetary defences, so the AI's bulldozer strategy is effectively countered by Sun-Tzu (or guerilla) style dispersed assaults.

As an Elerian bear in mind that your Omniscience gives you foreknowledge of all the AI's moves: you can watch the disposition of all their forces from shipyard to staging point.

However, without that trait, you can more readily be surprised, and that can be costly, so careful planning and anticipation are essential. You're generally right that attack is the best defence, so long as the timing is right: you don't want to commit your forces too early, because the AI is always Omniscient and will not lose the opportunity to sneak behind your frontline unless you succeed in diverting the attention of every one of your active enemies. For this reason it's best to fight only one or two wars at once until you have overwhelming strength on all frontiers and in depth.

A race that's not easy to play well, but a lot of fun when you can, is the Bulrathi. To them the game is all about ground combat and ship boarding. Capturing more advanced ships gives more power (when command points or finances permit), more tech (when scrapped), and much pleasure.

At high difficulty levels on large maps, some Feudal races (such as the Elerians) require precise schedules (and some fortune) to prosper; a misstep can be fatal, because once they fall behind in both tech (as they inexorably will against the likes of Psilons) and in industrial resources (where they are unremarkable) the other races will crush them. Their only feasible policy is to conquer, conquer, conquer. A slower than expected conquest of a single planet (often a Psilon colony with strong defences) can set them back permanently.

Still, Elerian Telepathy means they're OK at diplomacy, so that can win them the occasional needed escape from the diversions of an unwanted multifront war.

The other conquest races, the Mrrshan and Bulrathi, face similar perils, and they lack the Elerians' advantages of Omniscience and Telepathy to sustain their expansion. These races have to keep winning in space, on the ground, and in boarding tactics, otherwise they go under fast.

A strong attack race might combine industry (eg +2 Industry, or Tolerant) with command points (Warlord) so that ships can be built quickly and many ships can be supported. Feudal makes ships cost only 2/3 but reduce research by about 1/2 which is too high a price in the long run, if there is a long run (which is likelier on larger maps).

Ground combat is expensive on large maps, as every victorious fleet must be accompanied by troop transports, and every conquest requires more transports to be produced (at Marine Barracks or Armor Barracks) and sent to the front lines. This means delays, which means slower conquest than a Telepath. Industrious races (eg, Klackon, Silicoids) and high population races (eg, Sakkra, Trilarians) can best sustain the costs and rate of production, but they generally play differently as they provide the opportunity for building their way to victory.

The Sakkra are Feudal, but their high birth rate and large Subterranean populations compensate, so they often overwhelm their neighbors by sheer numbers.

Trilarians are an interesting race, because (being Aquatic) they have the advantage of needing less food on many of their worlds and therefore can build and research better than many races, and their Transdimensional trait means they can reach the stars quicker (for colonising, for attacking, and for defending) as well as their spacefaring being immune to the Hyperspace Fluxes that tie everyone else down.

Dictatorships (which most MOO2 standard races have) need Marine Barracks for the Morale, but only Dictatorship can eventually attain +100% morale (with Psionics and all other morale techs) on their colonies.

Most players regard Unification as too strong, and the combination Uni/Tol/+Prod as among the strongest. Industry counts for a lot in MOO2, as does having fewer farmers, and Uni does both of those well. Tolerant means more people and no pollution (to subtract from industry).

Research is the other dominant path to victory, but it takes time. If caught between aggressive or expansionist close neighbors, it can be hard for the researcher to keep science in focus. But once the early crises are over, a solid tech lead can be insurmountable. Just get a reasonable share of available colonies to plant the newly discovered Autolabs on.

We have several big advantages over the AI; one is that we know to build Androids, especially Android Workers. They are Tolerant (see above), don't eat food, and have a net +2 industry bonus (before Morale and other boosts). Despite the advertising, AWs are secretly engineered to benefit from Morale, which further adds to their industriousnous compared to any organic citizen, and they're cheap and quick to build! Buying two or three Androids in quick succession can jumpstart any planet's industry. Their main drawback is that they don't pay taxes, but their industry does (bigtime when the economy needs it) so I'm happy.

As a researcher, therefore, I often beeline for Autolabs and Android Workers. Soon after that, the gloves come off.

I mentioned that the Bulrathi are fun, albeit tough (in more ways than one), and another race that I play for the variety is the Darloks. More precisely, I boost the Bulrathi Ground Combat bonus, and I give the Darloks Telepathy. As a spying race, Telepathy is the best complement to +20 Spying, as it not only boosts infiltration, tech theft and sabotage mightily, but it also gives much-needed diplomatic clout with the infuriated AI. Sometimes I add Charismatic, because then I find I can do dastardly deeds one turn, get caught as often as may happen, and be forgiven in quick succession. I alternate my spies' attacks between all the races, to get maximum advantage while giving them all time to cool down. Then ,when I have stolen enough tech, and built up enough might, I go Mind-Controlling worlds, and am of course loved for it. i mean or is that and ?

Much of what I've said is off-topic, but when one ceases Elerian one's way to victory, it becomes necessary to know how the other races' abilities play, whether one's military/industrial aim is to build, conquer or destroy.

Last edited by Zoetrope on 17-03-2005 at 19:25

	17-03-2005 19:44									#3
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Wow thanks, that's a lot of info. I copy-pasted it to refer back to again.

Invasion is something I wanted to explore (can't exactly call myself Master without it), but the Bulrathi sound like fun too. That's something I haven't considered bfore.

As for the barracks, I have noticed that my morale always seems to be poor. I'll work on that.

My Elerian game started going a bit pear-shaped once the galaxy became evenly divided between the Klackons and myself. They had a tech lead that I just couldn't catch up to.

I started a new game as the Psilons and went for a pre-warp start, which feels a little like cheating, but I'm way ahead of everyone else. I feel like I need to see that stellar converted cutscene again, just to help me get over my loss.

Thanks again for the advice.

	17-03-2005 23:15									#4
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Zoetrope - if u have TIME to write so much - then i DONT belive u have no time to play online

PK

	18-03-2005 17:55									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

As Blaise Pascal once said, I apologise for the length of the letter. Had I had more time, it would have been briefer. I dashed it off while my wife was calling me.

I'd love to play online, but I've solemnly promised not to _play_ any computer game until my PhD thesis is a wrap. Even then, I cannot see a MOO2 match lasting less than half an hour, which is about the max I can spare nowadays. Under current pressure and distractions, I wouldn't concentrate well and might even forget to play my turn! (I once tried to continue playing an SE4 PBEM when personal circumstances were extremely stressful but my whole attitude fell apart and the game was abandoned amid an atmosphere redolent of strained diplomacy. PhDs are a different kind of stress than that, but still.)

Barracks: without them, the -20 Morale hurts colonization efforts of Feudal and Dictatorship empires. The Elerians might not be colonising much, but it matters to the others. (Though the Sakkra "compensate" through sheer numbers.)

The only empires without Barracks related morale issues are the Democracy (Humans) and the Unification (Klackons). Their emphases are research/diplomacy and industry/colonisation. Played accordingly, Barracks may hardly be a priority as they might not use ground troops so much as the necessarily conquistador races.

Invasion: the Bulrathi are the strongest ground troops (among the pre-made races), so they make good invaders. (It's a pity that in MOO2 one cannot select conquered species as troops and pilots.)

Nephrite, would you consider using a custom race, e.g. a boosted Bulrathi? When one is trying unfamiliar tactics, one may as well start with a race well suited to them.

The stock races are diverse but (mostly) minimal examples of what can be done. They can be strengthened by adding positive picks or by altering the negative ones. E.g. the Silicoids' slow population growth could be replaced by less harmful attributes.

Maybe a custom Psilons would be a good race to try different tactics with.The Psilons boni are Creative (+8 picks) and +2 Research (+6 picks). That leaves 6 picks. What if you give them High-G? Replace Low-G by Repulsive (-6) and choose another -4 picks. Then their fast research would soon give them quite strong ground troops. Being Repulsive doesn't hurt a Creative race much, especially if the modus operandi is invasion not sweet-talk.

Alternatively, give the customised Psilons +20 Ground Combat (+4 picks) and +20 Ship Attack (+2 picks). Macho Geeks rule, OK?

Or you might prefer to restore their Artefacts Home World (+3 picks) to help them along with their early research. (I assume you're playing version 1.31 or later.) In any case, the Psilons don't have to be weakened by Low-G.

In single-play I think most of us play either Pre-Warp or Average start, so it's hardly a cheat. In fact, the Psilons' Creative trait is helpful in _Advanced_ starts because other races must miss out on techs, but Psilons will start with _everything_ up to about the 650 RP level (if I recall correctly). I haven't tried it, but I'd guess that an Advanced customised Psilon could probably start beating up on the other races straight away.

	18-03-2005 20:16									#6
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Huge preassure :O ... ouch!

PK

	23-03-2005 07:21									#7
	Tired of ads?

To take over planets with transports you either need lots of troops, or better tech. Since you aren't creative, this usually means you won't have nice things like power armor (unless you stole it or robo miners). I reccommend lots of troops. Each transport holds 4 marines, so in the begining 3 transports can take most worlds. All transports in the system will unload to invade. At the end (if you won) you will leave a small force behind. The transports will refill, and the excess (between 1-4) marines will stay behind. To prevent revolts, unload some of the transports.

By invading you can steal tech, and chose to kill all the captured population. This last tactic doesn't seem to hurt diplomatic relationships (like death spores do), and you can then freight in your own colonist onto the planet. This is like the scorched earth tactic, except you don't need to build a colony ship, and you can keep the AI's buildings. I usually kill off the population if the race isn't worthy of assimilation (no bonus to food/prod, not tolerent) and replace with a more suitable race (like my own, the captured silicoid slaves, or klackons).

:edit: For reference I play on uni/tol/warlord on impossible. Usually 100 troops can take most planets if you have some ground tech.