26-03-2005 02:24									#61
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If you ever want to see a Civ5 you want there to be unit animations, leaderheads, and all that junk that slows down my ol' computer. The mass market looks for these frivolous items in a game and all the users between Apolyton and CivFanatics certainly wouldn't appease the amount of buyers they need/want.

With that in mind, all I ask for is easily identifiable expressions from the leaders and easily identifiable units. It'd be nice to get all those different zooms, like in Civ2.


Sn00py, I like your idea of creating your civ from ground up starting as nomads, but I'd like to see that in a whole other game entirely. I don't want to see Firaxis taking any radical steps in Civ4 that could screw up the game altogether. It'd be nice if another company tried doing a radical spin off of Civ, except not Activision, and implemented some of the more radical ideas.

	26-03-2005 02:37									#62
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Maybe the animations can default to off? We can install everything except for the primo graphics if we want? Maybe we should all feel obligated to buy 100 copies of the game, each? kidding on that last of course, maybe they should sell a dozen volumes of a civ library and every self respecting fan should buy all of them? heh. Maybe the primo graphics can all be on disc 2 and everything we really need on disc 1. I think we'll get much better than Civ2 zoomability. Maybe Strategy First/ Stardock/ Ubisoft/ Big Huge should do that radical thing you describe. But you don't think Firaxis itself should do a quasiciv to go alongside trueciv?

	26-03-2005 03:27									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Brent Maybe Strategy First/ Stardock/ Ubisoft/ Big Huge should do that radical thing you describe. But you don't think Firaxis itself should do a quasiciv to go alongside trueciv?

I don't know if Firaxis is intuitive enough. Besides that it would seem awkward for their (actually Take-Two's right? I think that's the name) marketing strategy to have two similar games.

Whoever makes the EU games or Brian Reynold's company, which is Big Huge I believe, wouldn't be bad a choice. I know RoN is a radical change of Civ already, but I'm thinking a radical, turn based Civ game.


I think it's Paradox, if I'm not mistaken, who makes the EU games.

	26-03-2005 07:48									#64
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CivIV has got to change radically if it wants to survive, people are getting bored with a slightly better Civ each version.

	26-03-2005 08:02									#65
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Maybe most people, but I know I want it to resemble the previous ones at least a little. I want a somewhat logical progression, or one that can play just about exactly like any of the previous ones, or any combination of their features, plus plenty of stuff added. Ultimate Civ. Not that I want it to be the last one, of course. Every civ in any Civ game or Conquests scenario available under any of the systems of any of the Civ games, plus additional civs from some Civ2 scenarios. And of course, a full featured SMAC scenario.

	27-03-2005 01:08									#66
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I think that the number of civs by region must be based on the number of countries there in real world. So, if we have 19: Europe with 6 (UK, France, Rome, German, Russia, Greece) Asia with 6 (China, India, Japan, Mongols, Persia); America with 4 (USA, Aztecs, Incas, Iroquois/Tupi/Brazil); Africa with 2 (Zulu, Egypt) and , maybe, Australia. If we have 24, add Spain, Scandinavia, Mayas, Turkey and Arabia . For 31, add Israel, Sumeria, Carthage, Kongo, Celts,Tibet, Korea.

	27-03-2005 01:51									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Sn00py CivIV has got to change radically if it wants to survive, people are getting bored with a slightly better Civ each version.

Who is the people? You and maybe other advanced players? At large the 2.5+ million people who bought Civ3 aren't looking for radical changes; they're looking for an improved product. Ever wonder how the Madden Football series has stuck around for so long? People like the basic concept and just keep improving the concept (not changing) and people will keep buying the product. I think Brent articulates the point exactly of what 'most people' will be looking for in Civ4.


The only radical changes I could see Civ4 implementing are ones that would appeal to more mainstream gamers, which seemingly would differ from the radical changes you would be looking for.

	27-03-2005 01:57									#68
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My list o' 31 flavors:

Egypt, Kongo, Mali, Carthage, Ethiopia, Zulu, Israel, Arabia, Armenia, Babylon, Persia, Sumer, India, China, Mongols, Japan, Tibet, Korea, Russia, Germany, England, Rome, France, Greece, America, Inca, Maya, Brazil, Aztec, Guarani, Australian Aborigines.

	27-03-2005 06:08									#69
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Madden Football is a bad example if you are trying to convince me, there's only so much you can do with a sports game.


If cIV comes out as just a slightly better Civ3, then many people are going to lose hope with CivV, they won't pay much or any attention and Civ will just start to disappear.

	27-03-2005 06:20									#70
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There's only so much you can do with a true Civ game, but admittedly more than with a sports game. Many people have never played Civ before, and many are going to lose interest in Civ5 if it's Civ, Sid, but not as we know it. Besides, it's starting to sound like you're expecting there to be less change than there will be. Changing it too much is the way to lose the fanbase. Each successive game was successful enough.

	27-03-2005 09:39									#71
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In my opinion, Civ needs just a handful of radical changes/additions (maybe 3 to 5), and the rest just improvements on the existing game. Change the game too much, and the game is no longer Civ. I would like to see an evolution of the series rather than a re-invention at each iteration.

For example, ICS is one thing I'd like to see radically changed. It should still be possible to rapidly expand and do well in the game, but it should also be possible to play as a perfectionist and do well.

To keep on topic ( ) here is my list of 19 civs I'd like to see (assuming Civ 4 starts off with 19):

[American] America, Maya, Inca, [European] England, Germany, France, Russia, Rome, Greece, [African] Egypt, Mali, Ethiopia, [Asian] Arabia, Babylon, Persia, India, China, Japan, and Mongolia

Scandinavia, Celts, Korea, Aztecs, and Carthage are on my short list of extras in case they include more than 19 with the initial game.

	27-03-2005 09:52									#72
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5 radical changes to major features or radical additions sounds good. But just about everything should be improved somewhat. Bring back popular old things thet they for some reason left out of Civ3, like video clips of actors for advisors, add voice clips. I agree that ICS should be just one of many strategies.

	27-03-2005 11:07									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Sn00py Madden Football is a bad example if you are trying to convince me, there's only so much you can do with a sports game. If cIV comes out as just a slightly better Civ3, then many people are going to lose hope with CivV, they won't pay much or any attention and Civ will just start to disappear.

I'm not trying to convince you; I'm only discussing a topic with you.

I was using Madden as an example that hardly any changes are made to the series year-to-year, yet people keep buying (and loving?) the game. With the Civ series I think the same could be said; there doesn't need to be a lot of radical changes each iteration of the game, since the core is already so compelling. Culture and resources in Civ3, religion and something else in Civ4 will do the trick to get to that 2.5+ million number again. Even if the game isn't up to par, the set of initial sales alone based on the credible/marketable name will probably be in the upper hundreds of thousands.

quote: In my opinion, Civ needs just a handful of radical changes/additions (maybe 3 to 5), and the rest just improvements on the existing game. Change the game too much, and the game is no longer Civ. I would like to see an evolution of the series rather than a re-invention at each iteration.

I agree completely. The game doesn't need to be radically changed but to keep the game interesting some major changes need to be implemented. The aforementioned culture and resources added quite a bit to Civ3 -- on a side note: definitely not as much as I was expecting and wanting. Yet look what happened - the sales exploded for the game. Based on the changes alone we know about Civ4 those ought to be more than enough to recompell old users and bring even more new ones to the game. Civ4 is probably not going to be as much as I want but when is any game? Civ4 will be great; Civ4's sales will be even more great.

	27-03-2005 14:49									#74
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I agree completely! Change what is wrong, improve what is regular and keep what is good!

	27-03-2005 20:18									#75
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personally I just want the game to be deeper, more serious and more realistic.

Remember Firaxis: Cartoons do not always = fun.

	28-03-2005 00:49									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Sn00py personally I just want the game to be deeper, more serious and more realistic. Remember Firaxis: Cartoons do not always = fun.

I can certainly agree with those sentiments.

	28-03-2005 07:38									#77
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Ethiopians would be a good choice - a legitimate civilization, and in a very good location that would bring a lot of balance, geographically.

	29-03-2005 20:42									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Xorbon To back-up what TechWins said, you could have 200+ civs in the game, while limiting the number of civs allowed in one game at a time. (If there was no limit, you know that people would try to pack 50 or more civs into a game, and then complain when their computer runs slow.) The problem then with 200+ civs is that you'd end up facing a bunch of civs that you couldn't care less about. To fix that, toggle switches could be introduced to turn on/off civs so that they will or won't randomly appear in a game. (For example, if you don't want to see the Byzantines in the game, set their switch to 'off'.) That being said, I don't want to advocate 200+ civs. ~40 civs would be just fine, IMO.

If there are only (much less than 200) civs at the same time allowed, then of course we could have as many civs in the game as we want, and maybe civs splitting and being assimilated.

I tried to make a list of 64 civs. It includes all the civs from Civ2, Civ3, PTW plus Inuit, Canadians (I wanted to fill spaces on the world map), Yankees / New Englanders, Southerners, Texans, Californians, Apaches, Cubans, Brazilians, Argentinians, Incas, Mayas, Ukrainians, Nigerians, Asante (sp?), Ethiopians, Congo, Massai, Siberians, Yakutians, Khwarezmians, Hebrews, Phoenicians, Assyrians, Bengals, Indonesians, Thai, Vietnamese, Pakistani, Tamils, Tibetians, Australians, Aborigines and Polynesians.

	29-03-2005 22:03									#79
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Wasn't Assyria in Civ2? And What is a Khwarezmian???

	30-03-2005 07:06									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Brent Wasn't Assyria in Civ2? And What is a Khwarezmian???

The Assyrians weren't in Civ 2. I think you could include them (along with the Arabs) if you did a bit of modding and removed one of the existing civs.

I haven't heard of the Khwarezmians before. Maybe they're a cult led by some guy named Khwarezmi.

	30-03-2005 07:12									#81
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I doubt they'd include any civilization whose name includes the substring "warezmi".

	30-03-2005 12:44									#82
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good point. I was beginning to think Khwarezmia was the cradle of Turywenism.

	31-03-2005 21:40									#83
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Khwarezmia (not 100% sure about spelling) was a state that actually existed in Central Asia but was destroyed by the Mongols (13th century)

	02-04-2005 04:23									#84
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Why to "Fill spaces on the world map"? The civ game never was passed on the world map, except scenarios.
64? Isn't it to much?

	02-04-2005 04:32									#85
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I'm not sure if I'd like the gameplay with any more than eight civs at once. I was just recently playing with 16, and didn't like it, but that could change next time I try it. Why so much focus on playing more at the same time? So what if it's more realistic? Just because I want more options, doesn't mean I want to use them all at once. It's even okay if there are some included to appease other people, but that I never use, as long as there are more of the ones I want than there are now. And even if you don't use a real world map, I still think it's a good idea to use civs from a geographically diverse selection. And I did enjoy using a real world map in Civ2.

	09-04-2005 10:13									#86
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The manual or strategy guide should give suggestions of which things to switch around to create civs that aren't directly included: graphics, units, traits, governments, religions. I guess I'd have to settle for coming up with city lists myself. Forexample:

The Fizzlanders are Mesoamerican. Their unique unit is the soda grenadier.l They are Fluffy and funny. Their favored government is utopia. They are monotheist.

The Amazons are mesoamerican. Their unique unit is the receptionist. They are tall and skinny. They are polytheist.

The Rogalanders are Germanic. Their unique unit is the violinist. They are tall and funny. Their favored government is constitutional monarchy. They are secular.

The Lofotenians are Germanic. Their unique unit is the fishboat. They are tall and stoic. Their favored government is constitutional monarchy. They are secular.

The Bernese are Germanic. Their unique unit is the yodler. They are tall and musical. Their favored government is Confederacy. They are secular.

The above are all in the game out of the box. To create the Cibolans, you use the Fizzlandic graphics, umm... the violinist... the tall and stoic traits, the utopian government, and the polytheist religion.

	12-04-2005 19:52									#87
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quote: Originally posted by TechWins In fact, it was Spain who initiated the world into the "Modern age".

It was ? How, exactly ?

	12-04-2005 21:11									#88
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I think he means the discovery of America and maybe the conquest of Granada. Though you might prefer to take the invention of the printing press as the real beginning of the modern age.

	12-04-2005 23:47									#89
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Consider the following fact:

The USA came into existence in 1783 with the Treaty of Paris.
The UK came into existence in 1707 with the Act of Union.

The UK is older than the USA, yet the USA is in Civ IV, but not the UK...
Surely England should be replaced with the United Kingdom?

>I think he means the discovery of America

Chris C. was Portugese, although funded by Spain. But in any case, he certainly wasn't the first European to "discover" America!

	13-04-2005 01:26									#90
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quote: Originally posted by GodSpawn Chris C. was Portugese, although funded by Spain. But in any case, he certainly wasn't the first European to "discover" America!

1.) There is no proof Chrisopher Columbus was Portugese. In fact, there were some 2-3 persons who all can have been Colombus, he was a secretive man. And the theories on where he came from ranges from Italy to Portugal to Spain itself, noone really knows what's right.
2.) It's right that he was not the first one to discover it, but he surely was the one who set things in motion.