23-03-2005 07:47									#61
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quote: Just like Counter Strike, which really started cooperative action gaming.

	23-03-2005 08:16									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Just like Counter Strike, which really started cooperative action gaming.

Not sure about that.

M.U.L.E. certainly requires player cooperation, and there is a lot of action in it. Then there are quite a number of arcade games where players play together as a group instead of against each other.

	23-03-2005 08:22									#63
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The Japanese games industry seems alone in producing innovative games. Titles such as Animal Crossing and Katamari Damacy are fairly fresh concepts, but your average strategy gamer/fps gamer will absolutely loath them.

Black & White was the last PC game that I was thrilled with [again, most people here HATE it with a passion.] After Black & White I was forced to consider a console for the first time since my Atari 2600. I found a host of TBS RPGs that look to sustain me for years to come. Disgae and Baten Kaitos are two games I'm enthralled with at the moment.

The PC gaming scene is utterly bleak and utterly devoid of interest for me now. Will Wright's Spore seems the only glimmer of hope. For me, Doom 3 and HL2 were very tired efforts.

	23-03-2005 08:25									#64
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Yes, but I'm not aware of any game prior to CS where the games absolutely have to play as a team (not a team of two, but of more, which implies a better organization and hierarchization) if they want to win. When you play Metal Slug with two players, you sure are cooperating, but it's little more than repeating what you'd do alone. CS is the first game I know where the number and behaviour of teammates strongly affects one's individual strategy, and especially the fact that one's strategy may be developed by the team as a whole.

It's really not the same experience as having a co-player that happens to blast foes at the same time as you.

	23-03-2005 08:43									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Well, you're wrong . The second add-on is far better than the vanilla. The scenario is way more interesting, the game offers more variety and moddability. I suppose they sell it cheap these days. Don't hesitate to buy the add-on (Hordes of the Underdark), because it completely renews the interest of the game. The first add-on (shadow of Undrentide) is quite disappointing though, so you should only buy it if you find a real bargain.

I liked SoU, but I'm a D&D nerd so I mostly enjoyed the tumble skill and prestige classes. HotU is worth it if only for the Epic rules, the great story is icing.

I bought NWN Platinum Edition, which includes the original campaign plus the two expansions plus a few other modules (4 CDs total). I got it on eBay, from Thailand ( ) for less than C$30. It didn't have the box or a paper manual, but the CD keys were legitimate and it came with a nice typed slip of paper saying, "Happy Birth Day."

SP

	23-03-2005 09:37									#66
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Yeah, I went through my old gaming boxes and it was Baldur's Gate 2 that I owned not NWN. I'm taking Spiffor and Dissident's advice and picked up NWN Platinum edition whcih includes NWN, Shadows of Undrentide, Hordes of the Underdark, along with all patches, updates, and modules. Not bad for $35.99.

I'm certainly thinking it is better to wait to buy games until they are all patched up and fully playable since the bad experience I've had with the last few new games I've bought.

	23-03-2005 09:41									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I'm certainly thinking it is better to wait to buy games until they are all patched up and fully playable since the bad experience I've had with the last few new games I've bought.

That's a good idea.

Besides, you get them cheaper this way.

	23-03-2005 11:41									#68
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So Spiffor, you'd reccomend that I pick up a complete Diablo set (including part 2) or should I just save my money and wait for any possible Diablo 3?

	23-03-2005 15:25									#69
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quote: So Spiffor, you'd reccomend that I pick up a complete Diablo set (including part 2) or should I just save my money and wait for any possible Diablo 3?

From what I understand there is no Diablo3 even planned. And all/most of the original designers of Diablo1 & 2 left the company (Blizzard). Blizzard seems to only care about it's Warcraft crap now.

quote: I bought NWN Platinum Edition,... It didn't have the box or a paper manual

You didn't miss anything. The official NWN pdf manuals and paper manuals are poor with critical information wrong/missing. This is what you want...http://nwvault.ign.com/Files/other/...619119750.shtml

quote: HotU is worth it if only for the Epic rules, the great story is icing.

quote: I liked SoU, but I'm a D&D nerd

I'm not a D&D specialist/nerd per say, but since there are tons of D&D nerds/specialists there are hundreds of player-designed modules, so a few are impressive. I would give some more a try if it weren't for my brother installing bad sound drivers on my computer... now NWN always crashes. Even uninstalling/reinstalling the drivers or the game doesn't help.

quote: I'm certainly thinking it is better to wait to buy games until they are all patched up and fully playable since the bad experience I've had with the last few new games I've bought.

I follow this strategy now too. Let others be the beta testers while you wait to pay a cheaper price for more/better product.

	23-03-2005 17:04									#70
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anyone else here break into a cold sweat when they look at all the games they've bought over the years/

	23-03-2005 17:47									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Barinthus So Spiffor, you'd reccomend that I pick up a complete Diablo set (including part 2) or should I just save my money and wait for any possible Diablo 3?

Diablo1 isn't that great. It's a cute game, but it's dwarfed by Diablo2. Diablo2 + Add-on is the real thing.

I suggest you not to apply the latest patch (1.10) until you become really hooked, because it doesn't fix bugs, but makes very important balance changes aimed at other players (it was out more than one year after the previous patch). If you are a power player, though, 1.10 is a dream come true

	24-03-2005 00:35									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse anyone else here break into a cold sweat when they look at all the games they've bought over the years/

	24-03-2005 00:43									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse anyone else here break into a cold sweat when they look at all the games they've bought over the years/

Yes and no... since I discovered usenet, I haven't been buying as many games as I used to. I shudder when I look through my closet at all the bullshit games I've bought. But that was back when I had a job and cash flow, so it wasn't too bad.

I'm actually proud of the games I've bought in the last year. They're all great games and worth the money. I thankfully haven't wasted much money because I download everything before I buy.

And I'm REALLY GLAD I didn't buy "Brothers in Arms". That game is piss-poor at best.

	24-03-2005 03:25									#74
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It's been said before, but we're essentially paying the price for improved graphics and capabilities. In the old days, a few people could work together and code a game to satisfactory standards by themselves. Mail Order Monsters, one of my favorite old games for the C64, was literally programmed by three people in its entirety. Graphics and everything. The bar was so low that a few people were free to pursue their dreams on their own initiative and worry about selling the finished product. What you wound up with was something like the scenario league here, people taking apparent limitations of the technology and stretching it in unheard-of ways. It was possible because there were no practical limits on making your ideas a reality, provided you were willing to do the work and take the risks.

Now people want decent music, realistic characters, multiple gameplay options, online co-op modes, and so on. Such massive projects could never be accomplished by a single person or small group, and certainly not without considerable time, funding, debugging, playtesting, et cetera. The demand is greater, a substantial initial investment is required, and as a result people tend to play conservative with their cash, go for what they think is already proven to sell, can be made quickly. The decisions are now primarily in the hands of businessmen rather than artists. Like it or not, that seems to be how it is now.

Again, I don't claim credit for this explanation of things, it's just what I read somewhere, can't recall the source. Some games magazine. But I seem to recall FFVII costing several million to produce, way back in 1997. The complexity of technology and code only increases with time. Is it any wonder that nobody's taking a risk?

	24-03-2005 03:45									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident LOL, that's a long break. I take breaks for gaming, but they really don't last more than a few weeks or maybe a month or two.

well my old board games were buried in a box, and its not like board wargames are in your face all that much.
and electronic games simply werent on my radar screen. And you know, i wasnt such a nerd to be a 26 year old and playing games but you have kids, your freedom is somewhat limited, and then you get a PC cause like everyone has one and you cant even get a decent typewriter anymore and all. And so you try some stuff, and bang - there you are again.

Its why some game discussions seem so weird to me. When i gamed before it was just taken for granted that history was the principle topic for games (well except for the DnD crowd, but THEY were weirder than we were) and that it was a serious thing - not a bunch 11 year kids going bang-bang. and you come back and express the same prejudices you always had, and its like youre from another planet.

	01-04-2005 11:48									#76
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*sigh* I hate to say it, but I'm becoming bored of computer games.

I need to find something else to occupy my time. any recommendations?

	01-04-2005 11:50									#77
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TV .

Cycling... swimming... hiking...

Something more sedentary? PS2

	01-04-2005 12:22									#78
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Forum games?

	01-04-2005 12:33									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident *sigh* I hate to say it, but I'm becoming bored of computer games. I need to find something else to occupy my time. any recommendations?

life!

	01-04-2005 12:57									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Barinthus Cycling... swimming... hiking...

Cycling!

	01-04-2005 13:38									#81
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Reading...

	01-04-2005 13:40									#82
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Weight room

Volunteer work

	01-04-2005 13:58									#83
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sexing