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Zulu Elephant is offline Zulu Elephant
Prince

Jun 1999
time: 05:35
  Old Post 24-03-2005 15:05
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Im not familiar with the term backgrounder, but i think i know what you mean and i think thats what it is.

Its certainly not an editorial but neither is it presented as 'news'

The article seems to be a few interviews with a bit of context thrown in. Interesting read though.

quote:
..she has (courtesy of her spin-meisters in the White House) framed her husband's disastrous invasions of both Afghanistan and Iraq...


This bit of the article that you quoted however is clearly attributed to someone other than the author - its not a direct quote but then interview write-ups are hardly ever he-said, i-said, he-said, i-said.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:35
  Old Post 24-03-2005 15:12
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I don't agree. It's even worse since those look to be the writers words that use someone else's name and words as bookends.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
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Aug 2001
time: 22:35
  Old Post 24-03-2005 15:13
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Maybe I have that wrong, but it's still very curious copy to make it past the editors.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
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Aug 2001
time: 22:35
  Old Post 24-03-2005 15:20
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Incidently, columns are edited.

My grievance with the Guardian is more with their editors, and therefore the publishers, than with any individual writer.

Their editorial policy, or there position IOW, is that of a rag. They publish 'jokes' about political assassination, and then make excuses when they are criticised.

Therefore I call it a rag.

Mike dislikes this standard, although he likes to criticise Fox for the opinions they air. What's the difference?

Zulu Elephant is offline Zulu Elephant
Prince

Jun 1999
time: 05:35
  Old Post 24-03-2005 15:47
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Jeez. That's it. Im quitting this thread. I've argued my point, but now Im just bored. Here the summing up of the (in my opinion) facts about the supposed bias of Guardian...

Actual news reporting

The Guardian is one of the three truly unbiased British national newspapers: The Guardian, The Financial Times and the Times. Anyone who thinks there is a major bias in the Guardians news reporting is, in my opinion, suffering from clouded judgement due to their own ideological leanings. I know plenty of moderate left-wingers who think that the news reporting in the Times and Financial Times is biased...they are equally as wrong.

Editorials

A huge range of opinions are expressed in the Guardian editorial pages, covering a larger ideological spectrum than any other UK paper. Because the paper is traditionally editorially left-leaning, the majority of contributors tend to be of the left. These range from Blairites such as Polly Toynbee, to Labour and Liberal Democrat politicians of varying ideological persuasion, to hard left socialists such as the recently deceased Paul Foot. Conservative politicians also contribute reasonably often - Malcolm Rifkind wrote and interesting article not that long ago. The only people that dont tend to contribute are those to the right of the Conservatives (ideologically BNP or UKIP) but, on the whole, the far-right hate the Guardian with such a passion that they would rather join the Euro than write for them

A final comment about the editorial section - I feel that people at Poly have got the wrong end of the stick with regards to paper because of articles by the hard-left wing contributors have been posted here. Let me make it clear...most comment in the Guardian is much more moderate (although even if it wasn't, its the comment section and so shouldn't be used as a benchmark to judge the Guardians news reporting/journalistic integrity)

G2 / What has been described here as "Background"

The Guardian is a very different kind of newspaper to any other I've ever read. Many who read it like to think of it as the "intellectual's" paper and, to some extent, it is (although not to the degree that many think). For that reason, G2 is difficult to describe without making it sound pretentious. There tends to be a lot of Social commentary in it. The best way I can describe G2 articles is that they occupy an area where editorial and academia collide - but written in a pretty casual style.

Apart from that G2 contains lifestyle sections on food, health and other stuff, including light-hearted things.




Anyway. To sum up. If you want a paper with editorials that espouse a only one ideological or party viewpoint then dont buy/read the Guardian. If you find reading well researched, intelligent editorials that you may or may not disagree with interesting then you'll like it. And if you can't handle that facts and opinion are mixed together in the NON-NEWS section (G2) I suggest you don't visit the thread about the merits of “The Di Vinci Code” The Guardian is not a kid's newspaper and it is assumed that it's readers don't need teacher to hold their hand and explain the blindingly obvious.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
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Aug 2001
time: 22:35
  Old Post 24-03-2005 15:59
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No, I want news sources that can edit themselves responsibly.

That includes not printing tripe about 'disasters' in Afghanistan or 'jokes' about political violence.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
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Aug 2001
time: 22:35
  Old Post 24-03-2005 16:01
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And we won't even mention equating Israel to the Boers and Apartheid.

Oops, I just did.

child of Thor is offline child of Thor
Emperor
UK
Jan 2002
time: 05:35
  Old Post 24-03-2005 16:23
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Tired of ads?

Well i don't buy papers often, but i would say that people that i've known, and who would call themselves left-wing tended to be guardian readers.
I think in the uk if you wanted a healthy mix of papers, go for the guardian,the times,the sun and read the bbc website. This kind of gives you a nice overall picture of whats happening, especially if you can also read between the lines .

MikeH is offline MikeH
Emperor
Ming on rakastajani
May 1999
time: 05:35
  Old Post 24-03-2005 17:15 Visit MikeH's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
This isn't labelled as comment.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1394150,00.html


The G2 section is the little pullout section for columnists etc. That's an article about how someone's view of how American Women see Laura Bush. Even unlabeled on the web no-one could mistake that for a news article.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
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Aug 2001
time: 22:35
  Old Post 24-03-2005 17:30
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I know it's not news, but why doesn't it get the nifty label as comment that some other bits get?

Because it's not?

duke o' york is offline duke o' york

Emperor

Oct 2001
time: 05:35
  Old Post 24-03-2005 17:33
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Are you suggesting that it's news?

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
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Aug 2001
time: 22:35
  Old Post 24-03-2005 17:37
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No. It's background. I don't give a fig what you Brits call it, but it clearly is not 'comment' although it manages to make some.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:35
  Old Post 24-03-2005 17:41
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And WTF does it matter if it's 'comment' or news or not?

It's a pretty farsical statement for any paper outside of the OBL Gazette to print.

There are editors for a reason.

Lazarus and the Gimp is offline Lazarus and the Gimp
King
Whale-raping abomination
Aug 2000
time: 05:35
  Old Post 24-03-2005 22:35
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Maybe the editors credit their readers with intelligence?

molly bloom is offline molly bloom
Prince
Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:35
  Old Post 24-03-2005 22:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava

It's interesting reading at times, but they have little or no credibility, and I would never use a Guardian article to support any of my points.




Hilarious, Sava criticises the Guardian's credibility.

Physician, heal thyself.

Lazarus and the Gimp is offline Lazarus and the Gimp
King
Whale-raping abomination
Aug 2000
time: 05:35
  Old Post 24-03-2005 23:05
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It speaks volumes that those damning the Grauniad from the other side of the Atlantic are picking out, as examples of "biased journalism", quotes from the joke TV reviews out of the funnies section of the entertainment magazine.

They'll be reading Maoist propaganda into the "Personals" ads next.

Tingkai is offline Tingkai
Warlord
To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:35
  Old Post 24-03-2005 23:07
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
No, I want news sources that can edit themselves responsibly.

That includes not printing tripe about 'disasters' in Afghanistan or 'jokes' about political violence.




Krum wrote a column. A column is an opinion piece, not a news story. Columnists are hired to voice opinions, whether they're hired by the Guardian, the Globe or the Post.

Simple really.

molly bloom is offline molly bloom
Prince
Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:35
  Old Post 24-03-2005 23:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp


They'll be reading Maoist propaganda into the "Personals" ads next.



It's where I get all my secret messages from SMERSH, Spectre, Thrush and Rosa Klebb's billets doux.

Tingkai is offline Tingkai
Warlord
To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:35
  Old Post 24-03-2005 23:16
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
There are two types of bias a paper can exhibit, thought of course it can exhibit both at the same time.

1. How it analyzes stories- ie, what spin is given to the facts in order to fit the given facts into a pre-existing view.
2. How it reports stories- chosing which facts to put in based on a decision of what should be included or not.

...

To me the second is far more dangerous than the first.


I agree completely.

Reporters make decisions about what is newsworthy and those decisions are subject to bias, particularly in the question asked during an interview. The Washington press corp tends to treat all presidents with kid's gloves, something that doesn't happen in Canada or Britain.

That's different from copy editors who often have to make quick decisions on what to cut out of a story in order to make it fit. They often have to chop things out of a story simply based on how many lines of copy needs to be cut. They consider how the cut affects the story flow. They don't chop stuff out because They disagree with something and most usually wish they had more space so they wouldn't have to chop out good stuff.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:35
  Old Post 25-03-2005 03:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
Plus the fact he banged on about deceitfully mixing opinion and news when a piece he cited had "Comment" at the top in a big font, denoting it as an opinion piece. Yep- we laughed.


You may recall I listed several different things the Guardian did wrong and then I listed five different links which displayed the various forms of bias I spoke about. You then started laughing at one because it was an editorial. I was not aware that every signal one of the five had to show every single form of bias I had listed. But please laugh any way. I want you to put yourself out.

No one is seeing a massive conspiracy by the Guardian but several people have noticed a marked bias. Mike took the time to read everyone's posts and he came up with a pretty good hypothesis (namely, posters here pick and choice Guardian articles to give the appearance of bias by taking a nonsatistical sampling) and I have already admited that is a reasonable explination.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:35
  Old Post 25-03-2005 03:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Tingkai
Reporters make decisions about what is newsworthy and those decisions are subject to bias, particularly in the question asked during an interview. The Washington press corp tends to treat all presidents with kid's gloves, something that doesn't happen in Canada or Britain.


I think you are right. The administration can refuse to grant a reporter access to interviews and Q&A sessions so the press core tends to softball alot of stuff so they can curry favor with the administration.

What we need is some sort of independent process that takes press core decisions out of the Administration's hands.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
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Sep 2001
time: 21:35
  Old Post 25-03-2005 03:26
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselectio...1314558,00.html

Can somebody please tell me if this is an editorial or not? I honestly can't tell because all it says at the top is "Guardian Unlimited: Elections 2004" which leads me to believe it is a backgrounder or in any event it is how a backgrounder would appear on our side of hte Atlantic.

I truly hope it is an opinion piece because it is horribly biased and I found it because I knew Markos Moulitsas (who writes the extremely biased Daily Kos) was a hack/reporter I could count on to deliver far left views.

Here's the last sentence of the fist paragraph to show you what the article is like and the rest follows this same note.
quote:

It was a race that should have been won by their candidate, Al Gore. In fact, it was won by Al Gore, but the Rightwing Noise Machine kept it close enough to be stolen by the Republicans and their allies at the supreme court.


I hope it is an opinion piece.

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
Settler
Diety of Kidiverse
Mar 2003
time: 21:35
  Old Post 25-03-2005 03:31 Visit Kidicious's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin


I think you are right. The administration can refuse to grant a reporter access to interviews and Q&A sessions so the press core tends to softball alot of stuff so they can curry favor with the administration.

What we need is some sort of independent process that takes press core decisions out of the Administration's hands.


What we need is smarter Americans. The Press gives us what we watch.

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
Settler
Diety of Kidiverse
Mar 2003
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  Old Post 25-03-2005 03:34 Visit Kidicious's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselectio...1314558,00.html

Can somebody please tell me if this is an editorial or not? I honestly can't tell because all it says at the top is "Guardian Unlimited: Elections 2004" which leads me to believe it is a backgrounder or in any event it is how a backgrounder would appear on our side of hte Atlantic.

I truly hope it is an opinion piece because it is horribly biased and I found it because I knew Markos Moulitsas (who writes the extremely biased Daily Kos) was a hack/reporter I could count on to deliver far left views.

Here's the last sentence of the fist paragraph to show you what the article is like and the rest follows this same note.
quote:

It was a race that should have been won by their candidate, Al Gore. In fact, it was won by Al Gore, but the Rightwing Noise Machine kept it close enough to be stolen by the Republicans and their allies at the supreme court.


I hope it is an opinion piece.


It's a weekly column. I assume that means it's an opinion piece.

Lazarus and the Gimp is offline Lazarus and the Gimp
King
Whale-raping abomination
Aug 2000
time: 05:35
  Old Post 25-03-2005 04:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselectio...1314558,00.html

Can somebody please tell me if this is an editorial or not? I honestly can't tell because all it says at the top is "Guardian Unlimited: Elections 2004" which leads me to believe it is a backgrounder or in any event it is how a backgrounder would appear on our side of hte Atlantic.

I truly hope it is an opinion piece because it is horribly biased and I found it because I knew Markos Moulitsas (who writes the extremely biased Daily Kos) was a hack/reporter I could count on to deliver far left views.

Here's the last sentence of the fist paragraph to show you what the article is like and the rest follows this same note.
quote:

It was a race that should have been won by their candidate, Al Gore. In fact, it was won by Al Gore, but the Rightwing Noise Machine kept it close enough to be stolen by the Republicans and their allies at the supreme court.


I hope it is an opinion piece.


You don't honestly need an answer to that, do you? Of course it's an opinon piece, just as the Charlie Brooker "assassination plea" was obviously a bad-taste humour skit.

Reassure me you aren't actually confused by this, please.

 
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