24-03-2005 02:16									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson One of our Carriers (it's heading SW from WW) can bomb Candri before the Carrier moves S further. We have some BB that can bombard Luxilou and Candri as well. What that hopefully does is force ND to stick units on tiles they want to keep improved in the short term, and maybe give them the impression that most of our Navy is heading N. Make sure ND realizes that they won't have much left along the coastlines if they wait around and let us keep the initiative. Maybe also get them producing Jet Fighters instead of Tanks/MI.

Would focusing on possible invasion positions (forks) be good for us, or bad?
Fighters would be good, and if we've got a carrier fleet with bombers, they must build them.

quote: We have the one Transport up N, 4 of Monsoon. It will be loaded with 8 MI in case we can open up Luxilou or Candri (from behind) for them to be sailed into. It can threaten Luxilou and Candri obviously, or stay back a bit and only threaten them if ND sends out a ship or Fighter to check around.

I would keep them back, right at the edge of a fork on the cities if that is possible. They will probably try to scout, otherwise it becomes a too obvious distraction.

DeepO

	24-03-2005 02:23									#32
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Monsoon: right now you're blocking the entrance to the city with BBs... they need to have a good reason to move in case ND scouts before invasion. A 'hidden' fork with the transport on both cities would be a good reason.

Aeson, do you know the last position of the ND transport stack? Was that Luxilou?

Thinking on the 2 MI in Monsoon again: they already have 20 marines, and can finish another ~15 this turn. Or at least 25 Marines over the next 2 turns. 45 Marines we can think ND can build... if we only leave 2 defenders in the city, we look stupid, and they won't go for it. Too much, or we need an explanation, and everything on Legoland won't cut it.

DeepO

	24-03-2005 02:32									#33
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO Would focusing on possible invasion positions (forks) be good for us, or bad?

We will be set up to hit Neu Mavsu (preferred), Pica, and Flateria. We could only hit Pica next turn with anything (5 Bombers, 3 BB).

	24-03-2005 02:47									#34
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO Monsoon: right now you're blocking the entrance to the city with BBs... they need to have a good reason to move in case ND scouts before invasion. A 'hidden' fork with the transport on both cities would be a good reason.

Yah. The one BB was out in the open due to attacking, and I didn't want to give ND a possible "easy" sinking of a BB with a DD if they had one in Luxilou.

Also GoW will definitely spot the Transport with their Sub in time to relay the information to ND, and whether the Transport moved out to be in range of rolling into Luxilou, or is moving in, or through, won't be apparent. ND has seen a Transport or two in the past turns, so letting them keep tabs on it works in our favor I think.

The BB's and Transport will not be there next turn. Probably the fork on Luxilou and Candri, as far out as we can make it.

quote: Aeson, do you know the last position of the ND transport stack? Was that Luxilou?

Last they were spotted in Candri. That was 4-5 turns ago, so it could be just about anywhere in their E coast cities. I'd think it's in Candri or Luxilou. No real point in moving them elsewhere.

quote: Thinking on the 2 MI in Monsoon again: they already have 20 marines, and can finish another ~15 this turn. Or at least 25 Marines over the next 2 turns. 45 Marines we can think ND can build... if we only leave 2 defenders in the city, we look stupid, and they won't go for it. Too much, or we need an explanation, and everything on Legoland won't cut it.

Well, if ND builds a lot more Marines this turn we can beef things up. Right now there are 8 MI in Monsoon and I've been fluxuating it widly for several turns now, low, high, low, high, low... We need to make it so that they'd break through. Maybe 3-4 MI?

	24-03-2005 04:15									#35
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Wow, I've missed a lot. This is fascinating! Great fun to watch.

Knock em dead!

	24-03-2005 04:24									#36
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I think we would settle for hurting them bad and not getting hurt bad ourself.

	24-03-2005 17:52									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson The BB's and Transport will not be there next turn. Probably the fork on Luxilou and Candri, as far out as we can make it.

Well... I see 2 options:
- Move the ships to Luxilou 6. This will still block the direct route from Luxilou to Monsoon, while forking the two cities. It will also put our ships in view of ND without any scouting.
- Move the ships to Luxilou 3333 or 33333. In range, hidden, but not blocking.

Right now, I prefer the first option. It will require ND to either go through those ships, or to spend one turn at sea with their troops on board. It would also mean we got a good excuse to lower the troops in Monsoon, as the city will still be protected somewhat.

The second option is better when luring them on land.

quote: Last they were spotted in Candri. That was 4-5 turns ago, so it could be just about anywhere in their E coast cities. I'd think it's in Candri or Luxilou. No real point in moving them elsewhere.

One very good point to move them, is if they want to land near OG-BB-Typhoon. A fork on those cities is reachable from Neu Mavsu or Pica in 2 turns, and would pose a bigger risk to us than going for Monsoon. And in doing so, they would spot our transport fleet this (next) turn.

If ND has invasion plans, their best 2 options are either brute force going through Monsoon, or the Northern fork for maximum effect with minimal troops. I don't see them going for Elipolis, that would be more the area in which GoW could land.

quote: Well, if ND builds a lot more Marines this turn we can beef things up. Right now there are 8 MI in Monsoon and I've been fluxuating it widly for several turns now, low, high, low, high, low... We need to make it so that they'd break through. Maybe 3-4 MI?

That sounds better to me, yes. But let's not lose sight of the rest of our defenses too. By exposing Monsoon, inviting invasion, we need to make absolutely sure that Arashi and Tempest are perfectly defended. And Bolderberg too: they could otherwise use a settler rush to sneak by (OG 3 and 6 could lose their roads, which would mean Bolderberg could stay lowly defended)

By focusing on those 2 cities (or 3, without road pillaging), we seal off that side of the Spine breakers. Which means that them invading us would mostly lose them troops available for their defense, not a huge advantage in won ground on Stormia. Because of the fortify bonus, it would be best to build a static defense here, with e.g. 15 MI truely fortified, and a defense thingie as well. Arashi' build queue might be changed, Tempest can start on this immediately. Of course, if the marine plans are compromised for this don't bother, but otherwise a defense in those cities is going to do us good over a long period of time.

BTW, I think you might need to put down an extra radar tower, forking Arashi and Tempest from the Eastern side. The others can be captured. Unless there is one hiding beneath the name tag of Tempest in the screenshot. And that radar tower needs to be protected with at least 1 MI, to keep cavs or explorers to reach it.

DeepO

	24-03-2005 18:06									#38
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Another BTW: if at all possible, Arashi and Tempest should stock up on food. Both cities could be hit by negative fpt if ND invades the West.

DeepO

	24-03-2005 18:16									#39
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Something else: we most definately have an infiltrated ND spy. While we needed him this turn, I strongly suggest we try to get rid of them next turn if at all possible. We need our own eyes, but once the invasion has started (either invasion), we better keep ND from seeing too much.

DeepO

	25-03-2005 00:07									#40
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO That sounds better to me, yes. But let's not lose sight of the rest of our defenses too. By exposing Monsoon, inviting invasion, we need to make absolutely sure that Arashi and Tempest are perfectly defended. And Bolderberg too: they could otherwise use a settler rush to sneak by (OG 3 and 6 could lose their roads, which would mean Bolderberg could stay lowly defended)

Given the distance, they could move troops into Monsoon with 0 turn warning, but not rolling. Their Transports wouldn't make it into the city. If we have warning, we sink as many of the Transports as we can, and make it so they can't land at all, and/or blockade. (If they want to break through BBs with loaded Transports, that's as good as we can hope for).

	25-03-2005 00:13									#41
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO Something else: we most definately have an infiltrated ND spy. While we needed him this turn, I strongly suggest we try to get rid of them next turn if at all possible. We need our own eyes, but once the invasion has started (either invasion), we better keep ND from seeing too much.

I'm don't think we want to get into an espionage war (planting and exposing spies) with ND. They have more cash. A lot more. Our best bet is to hope that they don't focus cash into espionage, but if we expose their spy it forces it on them. When they plant their next spy, they will expose ours. (Of course I expect we won't have a spy next turn anyways.)

If we can get a big lump of cash from GoW with Miniaturization then we could be more agressive with espionage.

	25-03-2005 04:26									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson Given the distance, they could move troops into Monsoon with 0 turn warning, but not rolling. Their Transports wouldn't make it into the city. If we have warning, we sink as many of the Transports as we can, and make it so they can't land at all, and/or blockade. (If they want to break through BBs with loaded Transports, that's as good as we can hope for).

You got a point, but in that case what I was saying also applies to one turn later. I would pillage the 2 roads now, so that they can be mined again, without exposing workers on an unroaded hill. If they get turned into slaves, the pillaging won't contain them.
Same for the civil defense(s).

DeepO

	25-03-2005 04:31									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson I'm don't think we want to get into an espionage war (planting and exposing spies) with ND. They have more cash. A lot more. Our best bet is to hope that they don't focus cash into espionage, but if we expose their spy it forces it on them. When they plant their next spy, they will expose ours. (Of course I expect we won't have a spy next turn anyways.) If we can get a big lump of cash from GoW with Miniaturization then we could be more agressive with espionage.

I'm not sure on this. I don't think there will be time for a real war... We got terribly lucky last time, with planting and exposing Lego in one turn time. Normally, I would expect it to take some 7 turns with ample cash. If we can drain ND from 7 turns of cash, or keep them in the dark for 7 turns, it would well be worth it. In 7 turns time, we might very well be reduced to a settler on a boat, on our way to refugee free haven Voxia...

As to survival of our spy this turn: I don't think so either. However, they do have a lot of infs that can be upgraded, maybe they chose for that instead. Their cash isn't limitless either: 1000 gpt means 25 inf to MI upgrades.

DeepO

	30-03-2005 03:01									#44
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quote: Battle Report: near Mecca: gs mech inf2/5 -- nd tank 4/4 --> gs mech inf 1/5 gs mech inf2/5 -- nd tank 4/4 --> nd tank 3/4 gs mech inf2/5 -- nd tank 4/4 --> nd tank 1/4 gs mech inf1/5 -- nd tank 3/4 --> nd tank 1/5 promotion gs mech inf1/4 -- nd tank 4/4 --> nd tank 1/4 gs tank 2/4 -- nd tank 4/4 --> nd tank 1/4 gs worker captured near gs oil kolonie: gs mech inf4/4 -- nd tank 4/4 --> nd tank 3/4 gs worker -- nd tank 1/4 --> nd tank 1/4 worker captured oil kolonie destroyed salpeter kolonie destroyed in the south of legoland: gs mech inf4/5 -- nd tank 4/4 --> gs mech inf 2/5 gs mech inf2/5 -- nd tank 4/4 --> nd tank 1/4 rp conquistator 4/4 -- nd tank 2/4 --> nd tank 2/5 promotion !! in the north of legoland: gs coal mine destroyed by nd tank 3/4 rp inf 4/4 -- nd tank 4/4 --> nd tank 2/4 rp inf 4/4 -- nd tank 4/4 --> nd tank 1/4 rp inf 2/4 rp inf 4/4 -- nd tank 4/4 --> rp inf 3/4 rp conquistator 4/4 -- nd tank 4/4 --> nd tank 4/5 promotion !! rp conquistator 2/4 -- nd tank 4/4 --> nd tank 4/4 rp inf 4/4 -- nd tank 4/4 --> nd tank 3/5 promotion !! rp inf 4/4 -- nd tank 4/4 --> rp inf 2/4 rp inf 4/4 -- nd tank 4/4 --> nd tank 2/4 rp inf 4/4 -- nd tank 4/4 --> nd tank 1/4 rp inf 3/3 -- nd tank 4/4 --> rp inf 2/3 nd tank 1/4 rp inf 3/4 -- nd tank 4/5 --> nd tank 3/5 rp inf 2/3 -- nd tank 2/4 --> rp inf 2/4 nd tank 1/4 rp inf 2/3 -- nd mech inf 4/4 --> nd mech inf 2/4 rp inf 2/4 -- nd mech inf 4/4 --> rp inf 2/4 nd mech inf 1/4 rp inf 4/4 -- nd tank 3/4 --> rp inf 2/5

I count at least 18 ND Tanks on Lego. That would mean another 2 Transports of units were dropped there. I doubt they will send more, but it does help.

We have nothing left on Lego btw... RP has a 2/5 Inf if I am counting right.

quote: near Luxilou: Gs submarine 3/5 -- ND Bomber 4/4 --> gs submarine 2/5 ND Bomber 4/4 Gs submarine 2/5 -- ND Bomber 4/4 --> gs submarine 1/5 ND Bomber 4/4 Gs Battleship 5/5 -- ND Bomber 4/4 --> gs Battleship 4/5 ND Bomber 4/4 Gs Battleship 4/4 -- ND Bomber 4/4 --> gs Battleship 2/4 ND Bomber 4/4 Gs Battleship 4/5 -- ND Bomber 4/4 --> gs Battleship 3/5 ND Bomber 4/4 Gs Battleship 3/5 -- ND Bomber 4/4 --> gs Battleship 3/5 ND Bomber 4/4 Gs Battleship 3/5 -- ND Bomber 4/4 --> gs Battleship 2/5 ND Bomber 4/4 Gs Battleship 2/4 -- ND Bomber 4/4 --> gs Battleship 2/4 ND Bomber 4/4 Gs Battleship 2/4 -- ND Bomber 4/4 --> gs Battleship 1/4 ND Bomber 4/4 Gs Battleship 2/5 -- ND Bomber 4/4 --> gs Battleship 1/5 ND Bomber 4/4 Gs Battleship 3/4 -- ND Bomber 4/4 --> gs Battleship 1/4 ND Bomber 4/4

The sub was 6 of Luxilou. My guess is they sent a new Nuclear Sub from Candri towards Luxilou, spotting our Sub that way. Otherwise it would be sunk, there would have been a battle when ND stumbled into it, or ND wouldn't have seen it. (Or does having a Sub on a tile render it unworkable when at war?)

It sounds like ND's Bombers were in Luxilou, which makes it look like they are preparing for a crossing. Our 5/5 BB was 333 of Candri, so the other 4/4 BB was probably there too. The 3/4 BB couldn't have been hit from Luxilou though.

I just checked a notion I had that they might be using Bomber spam to scout out ships, but that doesn't work. So ND must have at least 2 more ships out. I would think at least 3.

- The Sub needs a sub to spot it near Luxilou, and if ND finished a Sub in Luxilou our Sub would be dead now, so it came from Candri.

- The 5/5 and 4/4 BB stack was at Candri 333. That could have been spotted by a ship from Candri, Pica, or Neu Mavsu. Candri is very unlikely, because then that would definitely mean there was a 3rd ship, and why move a ship S to cover what a S ship can already cover? Pica is the best bet because it has high production, and all the BB's can be spotted by a Nuclear Sub out of Pica moving 2 tiles out, then 2 tiles back, for almost complete safety.

If they are using ships from inside cities, we have to plan for it to hide our Transports. 2 tiles E, 2 tiles W, from Neu Mavsu would spot our Transports next turn. Pica and Flateria are only problems if they send ships out further, not being able to make it back, or going from Pica to New Mavsu (or vice versa) with a 5 movement ship. The tile 66 of Neu Mavsu is critical because it is the only "natural" tile that ND would spot our Transports from with ships. We have 2 BB (4/4, 1/4) and 2 Subs (both 4/4) that could make it there, and the tile would be out of range of ND Bombers from Candri. That wouldn't look terribly threatening (2 visible ships), but most likely keep ND from being able to take the tile with the 2 Subs as well.

	30-03-2005 03:26									#45
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Good idea to lock up that tile. Looks like we got some diversion, but not much to Legoland. Good thing this is not C3C with leathal bombardment.

	30-03-2005 19:28									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson - The Sub needs a sub to spot it near Luxilou, and if ND finished a Sub in Luxilou our Sub would be dead now, so it came from Candri.

Which means that there is a good chance that next turn, a sub/ship will finish in Luxilou. You could check the sabotage costs to be sure.

quote: If they are using ships from inside cities, we have to plan for it to hide our Transports. 2 tiles E, 2 tiles W, from Neu Mavsu would spot our Transports next turn. Pica and Flateria are only problems if they send ships out further, not being able to make it back, or going from Pica to New Mavsu (or vice versa) with a 5 movement ship.

As long as we've got a large presence of ships in the sea, ND will try to hide in their cities. Only when they will think they can win will they come in the open, and in group. So right now they're building new ships, moving them together, and won't take too many risks unless something calls for it.

If the 2 tiles E, 2 tiles W is a problem, can we block, or lure them with a sub? a well placed sub near those ships will draw scouts towards it, possibly killing it. And afterwards, a damaged sub will try to reach home (too badly damaged and they might sacrifice it though).

DeepO

	30-03-2005 19:30									#47
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Good idea to lock up that tile. Looks like we got some diversion, but not much to Legoland. Good thing this is not C3C with leathal bombardment.

I consider this a very good result regarding Legoland. Most of the ND troops are damaged... let's hope they will try to heal them on Legoland, before letting them cross to Bob. That would give us the one turn we need.

DeepO

	31-03-2005 01:30									#48
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Yah. We had those 16 units (+RP's 24), which couldn't make it to the invasion anyways, kill 14 ND units, and injure/tie up ~20 more. That's ~30 units we shouldn't have to face with our invasion at a cost of 0 units from the invasion.

The cost is we will have a tougher time defending Stormia.

	31-03-2005 01:54									#49
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO Which means that there is a good chance that next turn, a sub/ship will finish in Luxilou. You could check the sabotage costs to be sure.

Unless they are rushing in the build queue at least.

I would expect them to try to get some ships in Luxilou ASAP.

quote: If the 2 tiles E, 2 tiles W is a problem, can we block, or lure them with a sub?

The blockade is more sure to work. A Sub lure might not work against a DD or BB. Also, Neu Mavsu 22 is another danger spot. A Sub lure around Neu Mavsu, anywhere we can get to, would be too likely to lead them to 22 or 66 either way.

It might be best if we forgo splitting Pica. Having a split isn't really going to help us because ND won't be splitting forces up if we're going to be landing. They simply won't be defending the targets. I can't imagine any scenario where we catch ND off-guard and Pica (size 10, closest to Stormia) is less well defended than Neu Mavsu (size 3, midrange) and Flateria (size 5, furthest from Stormia).

If we move to Neu Mavsu 33333 then ND can't spot us without taking a ship out of their cities and not being able to get it back, or having a Fighter Recon in the area. We could also then use Sub lures. Our two prime targets, Neu Mavsu and Flateria, would still be in range, but we'd lose our Transports in both (instead of just in Flateria) when disbanding the city (not necessarily a bad thing).

Probably what we should do.

	31-03-2005 06:52									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson Unless they are rushing in the build queue at least.

True. But would you rush during build queue, just for the off-chance of someone checking sabotage costs? I'm not so sure this technique is even out there, I consider it more a GS-thing...

quote: It might be best if we forgo splitting Pica. Probably what we should do.

I agree. Splits are only really needed if it would not be a surprise, and we need some way of rolling landing. If we can't land in a city, we better turn around and head home. I would not consider it a good idea to land outside of a city. This is not Lego, with all defensive troops and 2 big armies invading. This is us, invading a highly offensive, larger army. If we land outside a city, we would be butchered.

In that view, we better have a split on 2 cities to check which one makes the easiest target, and which would lead to the best destructive path in their territory. But not to the point where it would keep us from landing at all, because of a too high risk of detection. If we lose our transports doing so, it's alright. If we land our forces, not many of them are going to survive anyway, so we don't need transports to return them home.

DeepO

	31-03-2005 07:33									#51
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I suspect that you are correct Deepo, that most are not familar with the formula for sabotage and how easy it is to use it to determine how many shields are in the box.

I have never seen it posted anywhere outside of this forum and the one time I mentioned . I am not sure if I even explained how to do it, only that it could be done.

If someone know how to count tiles (and not all understand the 1.5 apsect) and times the level of the city they are half way home.

Actually 3/4 as the base is 10, so the only unknown is the shields. Simple algebra does the rest.