27-03-2005 03:35									#31
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quote: Originally posted by TCO amateur boxing like at USNA is all about points. I prefer those bouts because they are more intense. It doesn't seem reasonable to me to have 12 rounds. 3 rounds is enough. It exhausts you like wrestling. The heavyweights are kinda interesting in the sense of power, but they spend a lot of time leaning on each other. And they don't hold their hands up defensively.

The heavyweight division is the worst boxing you can watch.

ACK!

	27-03-2005 04:09									#32
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The Heavyweight division suffered from the reduction in number of rounds to 12 from 15.

Watch an old heavyweight fight and you'll see that the fighters were fitter and lighter than they are now and could keep going well into the 13th or 14th round.

Watch any of the Ali-Frazier bouts or the Holmes-Norton bout and you'll see that heavys didn't always suck.

Nowadays, they're spent by the 8th or 9th. They're just too big and too cumbersome.

	27-03-2005 04:34									#33
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Check out these modern pankration fighters.

You would think they were Finnish or something!!!!

Attachment: pankration.jpg
This has been downloaded 42 time(s).

	27-03-2005 04:36									#34
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That looks like stick-figure fighting.........

ACK!

	27-03-2005 04:37									#35
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You can check out all the action here:

http://www.pankration.freesurf.fr/iupad/

	27-03-2005 04:38									#36
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The old pankration was hardcore. Yeah I would love if it was these days. Then again maybe the.. fights could be stopped earlier these days.

Fighting today means MMA. That's where it's at. Though boxing and all other sports are great too, and tough sports with tough men fighting.

	27-03-2005 04:41									#37
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You just want to fight naked Pekka

	27-03-2005 04:42									#38
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Not true. But I do fight in these little tiny tight pants. Let me get a pic for you.. just a sec.

	27-03-2005 04:52									#39
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Do you wear a gas mask also ?!?!!?!

	27-03-2005 04:58									#40
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http://www.susumug.com/photo_window...11&bout_id=1028

Pretty much the same the guy on the left (black dude, Kevin Randleman) has. Naturally I don't wear those all the time, because those are meant for actual fight, so that no one can grab you and stuff, but in training I sometimes wear those and a t-shirt of course. But sometimes just the shorts, but extremely rarely only the shorts, because training doesn't force you to only wear those and it's usually more nicer to fight with t-shirt on because well, if you can have a choice wearing only shorts or something more, you tend to put on something more, to avoid teh gay . Also I usually wear other shorts, a little bigger (longer) than those.

and PS. it doesnt' feel very erotic or gay when you're fighting, or training. That kind of a comment is usually from someone who has never been involved in the sport . Just like people who claim wrestling is gay, because you're in all these positions. Getting soccer kicked in the face won't automatically bring a thought of wearing a protective gas mask either.

	27-03-2005 05:04									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka and PS. it doesnt' feel very erotic or gay when you're fighting, or training. That kind of a comment is usually from someone who has never been involved in the sport . Just like people who claim wrestling is gay, because you're in all these positions. Getting soccer kicked in the face won't automatically bring a thought of wearing a protective gas mask either.

I KNOW

I was referring to the Finnish Army videos and pictures that Stefu showed. Like the one where the guys were wearing gas masks on their schlongs.

Of course if you are a fighter you don't want to be wearing alot of clothes because that just gives the other guy stuff to use agaist you. It would be like growing long hair.

But you gotta admit those Pankration guys wearing the loincloths is over the top.

	27-03-2005 05:11									#42
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Damn it, I didn't even get it. I just took the gas mask as general gay thing . PS! I do have a gas mask at home never used it in sex games though. It's for ... secret purposes (.. when the commies start taking over.. I'm ready).

Yeah I do admit, that those Pankration ... loincloths are a bit weird. Maybe they wore those in the ancient times when they were fighting, but then again I think they must have been a lot shorter skirts than that back then, showing little piece of buttocks too when in the right position (standing up, leaning 1%).

I don't know man.. I don't know what those dudes are up to though. But there's something about the old spirit they must have had in the old days that I find extremely fascinating. The commitment, the competition, the level of hurt they went into, the training hardships and the knowledge of being a fighter from very young age and going for it, and back then extremely dangerous thing to do, considering the injuries they had all the time, crippling and all that stuff. Sure it can happen today too, but it's still nto the same when considering all the safety factors we have today (good doctors etc). I kind of admire that spirit.

	27-03-2005 05:11									#43
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DP

	27-03-2005 05:18									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka I don't know man.. I don't know what those dudes are up to though. But there's something about the old spirit they must have had in the old days that I find extremely fascinating. The commitment, the competition, the level of hurt they went into, the training hardships and the knowledge of being a fighter from very young age and going for it, and back then extremely dangerous thing to do, considering the injuries they had all the time, crippling and all that stuff. Sure it can happen today too, but it's still nto the same when considering all the safety factors we have today (good doctors etc). I kind of admire that spirit.

Yeah back then they often fought to the death.

They also fought naked. I think those guys in the picture were trying to reproduce the spirit as much as they could. So they wanted to fight as close to being naked as possible. But they had to cover up a little bit.

In my case I would make a bad pankration fighter because my suoro is too much a target it would be too easy to hit.

	27-03-2005 05:27									#45
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do you want to know what suoro means in finnish? It means.. yes, penis. Wait a minute. How did you know that?

oh yeah naked. What was I on about little skirts? Of course they fought naked. Somehow I had this brainfart that maybe they had skirts lkie that but a lot shorter. Wow, I must be losing my mind.

Yeah anyway... well you have to wonder why someone would choose to be a fighter, and face crippling or even death as likely outcome at some point, rather sooner than later.. and for what... I don't think the fighters were rich or got a fat purse, but of course they had other reasons. And maybe they were respected then a lot more than fighters today. I would very much like to fight a real pankration fighter from those days, but not naked obviously. And with some rules, that for example I wouldn't be killed in case I lose. So referee to stop the fight, or my corner with the towel, but I would like to fight those dudes. Unfortunately not possible, because they're all dead.

I wonder what other real fighters and real fighting happened in the old days, other than that. in other cultures.. do you know? Rome and gladiators don't count. Has to be hand to hand combat, 1 on 1, very little rules if any.

	27-03-2005 05:33									#46
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For example the BJJ (brazilian jiu jitsu) has had a long route, no one knows exactly, but guessing is from 1400 and India, there was this form of wrestling, very real, that somehow travelled into Japan, where the Samurais would adopt it to their own and modify it a little but not too much, for the fighting without the sword. So you know it's not a joke, because the idea was to kill with samurais, not to fight in the ring.

From there, this Japanese dude who moved into Brazil in the early 1900s would teach it to some brazilian dude who helped him to organize a japanese ... quarters (for the lack of a better word) in brazil, so in return he taught that brazilian dude that. It was little stripped version, because of the obvious killing purposes of samurais. But still very real. Then it was passed on to some other people within the family (this would be the Gracie family by the way), and there was some good street fighters in there, who would adopt it to their style of street fighting in Brazil. And from there on it was known as BJJ, and later on .. the rest is history.

This japanese dude, by the way, wanted to turn JJ into more of a sport, so they could do it in the olympics and what not. They stripped down lots of techniques and stuff, and formed a new one, called Judo.

But the roots are in India for these, and hundreds of years ago, from some type of wrestling they did. That's all I know, I would love to know more about what they did in India, what part the fighters played in their society etc.

	27-03-2005 05:39									#47
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It sounds like alot of the systems have their roots in India for some reason.

That site I linked to, even said that Pankration was influenced by Alexander's soldiers, who were on the border with India before they turned back and went home.

It also says that the Shaolin monks started their practice after the founder visited India.

Kalarippayat

http://www.lifepositive.com/body/ma...-martialart.asp

	27-03-2005 05:55									#48
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Yeah, a lot of stuff comes from there, I really don't know why. It could be said, that well maybe the real roots are somewhere else, but the point we can backtrack is India so it really might not be the end of the route but then again, so many do go back there and we can't go further back so there has to be more into it.

And we are talking about the arts that have survived to these days. Of course there are all kinds of fist in the face arts from all over the world originated from their own countries, but somehow these from India are truly dominating, and let's not forget, that most of these are real life fighting stuff, with intent to kill and stuff, and very realistic, not some show or fancy kicks and stuff, but real working effective stuff. So why from India, why all this stuff from India?

Also there are many other styles from close to India (well not exactly next to it but reasonably close) like Pencak silat and tons of other stuff. Really interesting.

There's not a single good documentary film about this. Want to make money Ted? Hwo about you and me grab few cams, get tickets to India, travel around the area shooting stuff, and filming stuff, and getting high on all kinds of legal 'herbs', get on sunny beaches, live in bungaloes with hoes, exotic drinks, acapulco shirts and sandals, take a trip to the jungle and find out what it's all about, see Hindus and all kinds of folks, smile at a cow and not kill it, take a dip in the Ganges river, eat some weird local foods and get diarrhea for days, fight some dudes we're not sure why they attacked (but we won), get great material, shouting at Discovery we will sell it to other company if they won't send us more money for expenses because supposedly we were robbed (or maybe we had fun), then travel the neighbouring countries because we need to know the influences in there because it's all connected, go to singapore and get arrested for speaking at 9PM (who knows the laws in there!), definitely NOT get high, go on about filming, all the way to Japan, where it all ends to modern times, drink sake, sing karaoke with weird japanese teen girls we're not sure if they are high or like that normally, go to weird fetish parties that are under ground and get our bottoms spanked, clubbing, seeing places, interviewing all kinds of old dudes who claim to be masters, fight some yakuzas because we did something wrong we're not still sure about, go see some underground fights and film them secretly and then you get arrested but I bail you out because of my persuasive talking skills.. and then get paid a lot for doing the best documentary about it all. And then, because it was so succesfull, we can do a whole series later on and go into more detail, and make 200 trips more.
How's that sound?

	27-03-2005 06:00									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka There's not a single good documentary film about this. Want to make money Ted? Hwo about you and me grab few cams, get tickets to India, travel around the area shooting stuff, and filming stuff, and getting high on all kinds of legal 'herbs', get on sunny beaches, live in bungaloes with hoes, exotic drinks, acapulco shirts and sandals, take a trip to the jungle and find out what it's all about, see Hindus and all kinds of folks, smile at a cow and not kill it, take a dip in the Ganges river, eat some weird local foods and get diarrhea for days, fight some dudes we're not sure why they attacked (but we won), get great material, shouting at Discovery we will sell it to other company if they won't send us more money for expenses because supposedly we were robbed (or maybe we had fun), then travel the neighbouring countries because we need to know the influences in there because it's all connected, go to singapore and get arrested for speaking at 9PM (who knows the laws in there!), definitely NOT get high, go on about filming, all the way to Japan, where it all ends to modern times, drink sake, sing karaoke with weird japanese teen girls we're not sure if they are high or like that normally, go to weird fetish parties that are under ground and get our bottoms spanked, clubbing, seeing places, interviewing all kinds of old dudes who claim to be masters, fight some yakuzas because we did something wrong we're not still sure about, go see some underground fights and film them secretly and then you get arrested but I bail you out because of my persuasive talking skills.. and then get paid a lot for doing the best documentary about it all. And then, because it was so succesfull, we can do a whole series later on and go into more detail, and make 200 trips more. How's that sound?

That sounds like a mutu****in adventure!!!!!!!!!

	27-03-2005 06:05									#50
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Yeah, an adventure and getting paid for it One of those things you could do and feel like you're doing something that is a) worth doing b) educating c) good for you personally, mentally and why not physically too d) time not wasted and maybe even feeling like this is life, this is it, I'm the master of it and I'm doing what I want, but at the same time coming out with a quality product. Of course with few bumps in the road, but that's life.

	27-03-2005 11:05									#51
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand A win is a win is a win. Points will get it done just as well as a k.o. or t.k.o.

SLLLLLLLOOOOWWWW!!!



How are ya, buddy?

	27-03-2005 11:08									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon When it's refereed properly and you get rid of the silly, violent hyping of matches, it's a fine sport.

Any sport where the object is to bounce the other person's brain around isn't a real sport. No sport should have the intention of causing brain damage.

	27-03-2005 19:51									#53
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Pro wrestling ?

PRO wrestling ???













Hi, Imran.

	27-03-2005 19:58									#54
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SLOWW!!!!!

Where ya been?

Only weirdo here my wife hasn't talked to yet!



ACK!

	27-03-2005 20:03									#55
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Hi, Tubs.

Been taking a break from those that have no concept of reality. (See above )

	27-03-2005 20:05									#56
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Well stop it, who else can I fight with?



ACK!

	28-03-2005 03:21									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski The heavyweight division is the worst boxing you can watch. ACK!

Agreed. There is much more ringcraft from Sugar Ray Robinson than Mike Tyson. That said, it can be fun as a show to watch the big guys.

	28-03-2005 03:22									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon The Heavyweight division suffered from the reduction in number of rounds to 12 from 15. Watch an old heavyweight fight and you'll see that the fighters were fitter and lighter than they are now and could keep going well into the 13th or 14th round. Watch any of the Ali-Frazier bouts or the Holmes-Norton bout and you'll see that heavys didn't always suck. Nowadays, they're spent by the 8th or 9th. They're just too big and too cumbersome.

You have no clue about real boxing if you think that so many rounds should be run. They just lean on each other and waltz around. A 3 ring bout is way more intense.

	28-03-2005 03:24									#59
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TCO dropped a German suplex on this one mofo.

Knocked him out cold.

	28-03-2005 03:25									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka Damn it, I didn't even get it. I just took the gas mask as general gay thing . PS! I do have a gas mask at home never used it in sex games though. It's for ... secret purposes (.. when the commies start taking over.. I'm ready).

Finlandization?