28-03-2005 12:03									#1
	Horde Discussion Monday 28 March AEST Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Part I

Paddy says:
are you here for a little while old salt
Rob says:
yes
Rob says:
just woke....at 11 pm
Paddy says:
do you mind if we have a small Horde group chat
Paddy says:

Rob says:
ok
Paddy says:
I will invite Plato and solax to join us here ok
Rob says:
yes
Paddy says:
cool
Rob says:
I think one is on the telephone

PLATO has been added to the conversation.

Paddy says:
heheh

Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge has been added to the conversation.

Paddy says:
Welcome Gents to our Horde chat
Rob says:
hi guys
Paddy says:
they may be a few mins
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
hi.. be back soon... on phone
Paddy says:
hehe
Paddy says:
Rob, we had another save in the past 5 hours
Rob says:
ok
Paddy says:
I had a message from Aqua, he feels we are stronger than their civ at this time
Rob says:
that's sort of helpful
Paddy says:
hehe
Paddy says:
did you see the pic on Porkers main unit
Rob says:
no
Rob says:
Which thread?
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
2950
Rob says:
sorry...but I'm lost for this one, I don't see their warrior in any of those screenies
Paddy says:
in the foreign advisor screen
Paddy says:
I have circled an announcement in red
Rob says:
are they freaking serious? the best unit is a .... worker?
Paddy says:
hehe
Paddy says:
sad indeed
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
what happened to that warrior that chased our settler?
Plato says:
What happened to the warrior that was terrorizing our settler?
Rob says:
We have 11 warriors, they have 1 worker?
Paddy says:
as they only have one player and their warrior may have met barbarians and died
Rob says:
He must have bitten the dust with barbs
Plato says:
ATTACK!
Paddy says:
hehehe
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:

Rob says:
I have to go along with the majority on this one...
Paddy says:
I have dispatched a veteran warrior to check this out
Plato says:
Unbelievable
Paddy says:
also Becks beer boys are there and can swing into their lands
Rob says:
at least...we can move our conscript warrior south 1 and see what's going on....
Paddy says:
would be fantastic to take their city, it has temple
Paddy says:
BBBoys is the conscript
Rob says:
maybe put him on the bananas...for extra defense
Rob says:
we also have the warrior squatting their iron...he is the one who sees the workers
Paddy says:
yes
Plato says:
This would be incredible if true
Paddy says:
well would that advisor lie?
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
Bite in the hocks
Paddy says:
so we have two warriors on their borders
Rob says:
if it is not accurate...we have only tipped our hands a few turns early anyways...
Paddy says:
hehe
Plato says:
If they had a spear we had not see, the advisor would not know of it
Rob says:
assuming they population rush...IF they have bw, they would have spears to defend at the expense of any ability to recover from our pillaging all of their workers' projects
Paddy says:
(LADS< PLEASE NOTE THAT I WILL BE POSTING THIS CHAT FOR ALL of the Horde TO READ, JUST SO YOU KNOW)
Rob says:
also....we don't HAVE to declare war, just take a sight-seeing tour...
Paddy says:
indeed
Plato says:
Definately cross the boarder before anything formal
Rob says:
If, in return, they declare on us...we get war happiness until they wipe out 15 guys (or take a city)
Rob says:
...besides...they mapped us...we should return the favor in duplicate
Paddy says:
ok, I just check some other pics, they do have at least one warrior fort on hill near iron
Rob says:
...if he is still alive?
Paddy says:
yes I am sure
Rob says:
ok
Plato says:
Hmmm...Our advisor thinks worker is better than warrior?
Rob says:
the advisor must not know of that warrior
Rob says:
although...I can't think why?
Rob says:
unless he went into and out of fog of war?
Plato says:
Odd for sure
Paddy says:
well it looked good
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
Sources within the KBH put the advisor in the Wild Boar just 2 hours before reporting
Paddy says:
hehehe
Rob says:
lol
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
Look for the story in the upcomming news report
Plato says:
I thought I saw him by the bar!
Paddy says:
hehe
Rob says:
I still recommend going in to have a look. The know we are on their borders (they can see our guys) so going in is not going to tell them anything they don't know, but may tell us lots more we don't know.
Rob says:
They
Rob says:
We certainly don't want to find out that they built their capital on horses after we declare war...
Plato says:
Perhaps it would be good to test their reaction
Paddy says:
sounds good idea to me
Rob says:
Paddy...if you want...you can give me the move orders...send the save to me...and I will claim an error in moving (for diplomatic liability...)
Paddy says:
hehehe
Paddy says:
no mate, my responsibilty
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
Let's get some posts and a poll
Rob says:
or...just claim I made the moves...
Rob says:
do we have time for a poll?
Paddy says:
no
Paddy says:
and looking will be fine
Paddy says:
will then send Ambassador Ljube in to smooth their feathers
Paddy says:
diplomacy hehe
Rob says:
Ok...but we may need a plausible deniability...so keep thinking guys
Paddy says:
worry not on that bit for now hehe
Rob says:
Paddy could claim that his wife/child/dog turned the brightness down on his computer monitor... (that just happened to me 4 days ago...talk about dark!)
Paddy says:
ok, can we move on to next subject...
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
yes
Rob says:
y
Plato says:
k
Paddy says:
do we upgrade our warriors before attacking, or send a horde of warriors there way
Paddy says:
these be discussion points, not for polls now
Rob says:
depends upon how soon we attack...if we attack in two turns...that would be a moot point...
Plato says:
Let's see what there is to see first. If they are that weak, then we may want to get there as fast as possible
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
*** wishing we had at least 2 archers there already
Rob says:
No...we don't need the archers there...if we walk in and they are nearly defenseless...they will have to rush spears....that will wipe out their economy and growth and then we need only send all available forces imediately
Rob says:
If we wait...because they are not defenseless, we will virtually have to use swords, as they are likely to have their UU
Plato says:
I agree. Speed is of the essence.
Rob says:
btw...if we do go after them...at ANY time...remember that their chariots must come at us from the NW, since they can not move through the jungles...so we will have a defensive advantage in those hills
Paddy says:
we have several warriors that could be heading their way next turn...
Rob says:
I say, do that...if nothing else, we lose 2 turns of movement for the warriors we divert
Plato says:
I think it couldn't hurt a thing to move the warriors in the Pig direction
Rob says:
We are not the AI, we can change our plans and send the warriors back on their original missions if we decide to cancel.
Plato says:
With aqua feeling weak compared to us and the bards very friendly, now is a good time to mobilize
Paddy says:
yes
Rob says:
But...I would switch Bokhara to another warrior immediately
Rob says:
Maybe Tatu to an archer
Rob says:
We should not be colonising while fighting the porkers (unless the war goes on a very, very long time)
Rob says:
Besides, getting those troops will not significantly delay the settlers, as they would be built by larger cities (more spt's)
Plato says:
In theory I agree, but I think perhaps hooking up to the iron may not be a bad idea anyway
Rob says:
we can do that with a worker, via colony if need be
Rob says:
and Khan's Blood hall is making a setter still anyways
Plato says:
Hate to waste a worker on what could be a short war
Paddy says:
ahhh we will come to KBH queue soon
Plato says:
especially when we are putting a city there anyway
Rob says:
yes...so KBH gets the iron, the other cities make fighters (btw Bokhara is not making a settler, it is making a spear, but probably would finish a worker next turn...reason to change )
Rob says:
the only city-production change that will be unchangeable Bokhara (as the warrior would finish next turn)
Rob says:
Paddy...I am assuming that Ta-Tu is well beyond 10 shields...is that correct?
Paddy says:
Ta-Tu is at 18 begining of next turn
Rob says:
so...and archer would be ideally suited to production there
Rob says:
an
Paddy says:
no barracks there
Plato says:
Yes, an archer in Ta-Tu would be good
Rob says:
archers have 0-level bombard
Plato says:
Still...
Rob says:
On a stack of warriors (being attacked) the archer will give 1 defensive fire
Paddy says:
indeed
Rob says:
that could prove critical on those hills if we meet up with a war chariot
Paddy says:
hehe
Rob says:
Kind of a poor-man's catapult
Plato says:
indeed it could
Plato says:
poor man's catapult. LOL
Paddy says:
Well done Lord Rob
Rob says:
well...I am just coming out of the doldrums from not having archers in the IDG game...
Plato says:
Archer should be done in 2, correct?
Paddy says:
1 more at next turn
Rob says:
so...yes
Plato says:
Then I think we should definately go for that.
Rob says:
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge on the phone...kinda spooks ya, don
Rob says:
don't it?
Paddy says:
hehe
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
This knowledge is Sacred
Plato says:

Rob says:
In 2950 BC, as the Blood Horde contemplated their first major conquest, the seer only known as "Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge" was asked for advice from the gods. He lifted a small device, placed it against his ear and said, "Do you want fries with that?"
Paddy says:
hehe
Rob says:
brb, need some water
Rob says:
back
Plato says:
Okay, so we take a look at the Porkers, and if they appear weak then we attack. What will our definition of "not" appearing weak be, and what do we do then?
Rob says:
I would say that 1. if we see a war chariot, they are not weak. 2. If we see spears in the cities, they are not weak. 3. If both cities are currently defended they are not weak.
Rob says:
Thus...we must see one open city and no spears to determine that war be declared in two turns...
Paddy says:
and if one warrior each
Rob says:
If we see one open city and one war chariot defending a city (thus no warriors or spears underneath) we will need to poll for certain, as that will be a gut call...
Plato says:
I agree with that. Next question is diplomatic. Eithier way they will contact us when we cross their boarder. What do we say?
Rob says:
If 1 warrior each...we don't know if it is 5 warriors each, and certainly we will not likely win a fight with only one warrior anyways
Rob says:
Hi, pizza delivery.
Paddy says:
we can build an embassy and investigate
Paddy says:
would cost approx 80 gold
Rob says:
The only other option would be to establish an embassy...and I don't recommend wasting the cash just to see if there are more warriors inside the capital when attacking with 1 is a big risk anyways.
Paddy says:
a bit more than 1 upgrade
Plato says:
That would sure put a crimp in our treasury for sword upgrades
Paddy says:
only 1 to 2 upgrades
Plato says:
Did we make the deal with aqua for the 200gp?
Paddy says:
no
Paddy says:
they offered 100
Paddy says:
max
Rob says:
But...would we attack their capital with only 1 warrior, against 1 warrior? Especially given the rng's propensity to favor the defender of a capital?
Plato says:
100! Ha! Thieves.
Rob says:
100 is probably still more than they would have to pay...
Rob says:
So...the only benefit they get is not waiting for 4 turns
Paddy says:
please know that they did not offer anything in game, yet they did click accepted as to take for nothing
Rob says:
And they would likely just buy it from someone else
Paddy says:
Desolation Row (aqua) must not be trusted
Rob says:
Sounds like Dogboy! He always does that, lol.
Plato says:
They will try anything won't they?
Paddy says:
indeed
Plato says:
No, BTW, we should not go one-on-one attacking their capital
Paddy says:
why
Rob says:
I agree with you Plato, that is why I believe establishing an embassy would be a waste of cash.
Paddy says:
imagine it undefended
Rob says:
Undefended is not one on one. In my experiences with Civ III, the capital (although it is not supposed to) always seems to gain some sort of defensive bonus.
Plato says:
numerical advantage can quickly fade at the doorsteps of someone elses capital. It would also give them time to prepare a defense and then we are back to waiting for upgrades
Plato says:
I agree. Capitals always seem to fall hard
Rob says:
But...if it is empty, certainly take it...and if we attack (due to the other city being empty) we can always take the worker....
Rob says:
Provided, of course, that they leave him in range...
Paddy says:
hehe
Plato says:
I would be for taking the worker if the cities are defended poorly
Plato says:
assuming we decide that now is the time for war. Perhaps we can have the ambassador contact them to determine their level of paranoia about having our warrior on their boarder?
Rob says:
Paddy, about the alphabet trade, can you check the other nations (besides aqua) to see if we could trade it to them (thus, whether or not they have the tech)?
Paddy says:
ok
Plato says:
Good point. 100 gp could actually be overpriced.
Paddy says:
may we please take a 5 minute break, I need to reboot this machine
Rob says:
no problem
Paddy says:
when I return please invite me back in here
Plato says:
Actually, I need to call it a night.
Rob says:
I will invite you
Paddy says:
thank you
Paddy says:
Good night Plato
Rob says:
G'night
Plato says:
Long Live the Horde!!

PLATO has left the conversation.

Attachment: camp-1.jpg
This has been downloaded 11 time(s).

	28-03-2005 12:04									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Part II

Rob says:
D'oh! I forgot to copy the script, ...
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
I still have it open
Rob says:
Please copy it then...
Paddy says:
hello
Rob says:
hi
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
remember I'm the "Guardian" of the sacred knowledge
Paddy says:
I have it
Rob says:
btw, Paddy, I had thought we were talking Alphabet, not writing for tech trades...
Paddy says:
as I stated earlier I will be posting this discussion ok
Paddy says:
I noticed
Rob says:
If writing, then the cost is much higher...I just posted the costs for that tech in the poll thread
Paddy says:
thank you
Paddy says:
that is great information indeed
Rob says:
Thus...for 100 gp, the question is will someone else sell to them for that amount...obtaining the cash benefit.
Paddy says:
well for 100 I prefer it is not us
Rob says:
me too...I think that selling them a tech for less than it would cost them and saving them 4 turns of research is unreasonable.
Paddy says:
indeed
Rob says:
But we need to have our ambassadors TELL all the other nations that.
Paddy says:
must make their lives harder, not easier
Paddy says:
hehe
Rob says:
If Aqua wants to create a bidding war, let's create a supplier war as well...
Paddy says:
well we have only traded Writing with Euphorica, and they have stated quite clearly they will not trade it
Paddy says:
hehe
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
I'll brb.. have to read what was read on last window and coffee is needed
Rob says:
ok
Paddy says:
ok
Rob says:
Which civ is Aqua?
Paddy says:
Persia
Rob says:
So they really, really need writing...let's make them suffer...let's let everyone know that they are looking for bargain-basement shopping and that the longer they don't have writing, the longer they don't have Literature.
Paddy says:
Babylon, Desolation Row (Aqua) and Porkers do not have writing
Paddy says:
indeed
Rob says:
So it would currently cost them 171
Paddy says:
we also have Horde Long Eyes (scout) out searching for the Lost Boys
Paddy says:
indeed
Rob says:
200, as I said, would have been reasonable.
Rob says:
Not 100
Paddy says:
Your post details for those reading here
1: 240
2: 217
3: 194
4: 171
5: 148
6: 125

So even if Aqua is the last to research writing, they would have to pay at least 125 gp (assuming that they paid the exact price and did not have beakers left over) and it would take them 4 turns!

I still believe 200 was a reasonable trade, 100 is not.
Paddy says:
indeed
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
ok, back
Rob says:
In addition...writing would permit them to spy our cities...so....
Paddy says:
indeed
Paddy says:
and that is not good
Rob says:
I think that I would greatly prefer to not subsidize the Immortals army scouting our cities to see if they are ripe for attack.
Paddy says:
yes... Desolation Row has many tigers in their team, who would greatly enjoy that information
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
I noticed paddy that is your convo w/ the Chinese you did not talk about "Persia's Iron". Any new info?
Rob says:
Next question...if we take an empty Porkers city (not the capital), do we burn it if the capital is guarded?
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
I say don't burn it right away if they can't attack immediatly. If there is a temple in that city we can at least sell it before burning it
Rob says:
No we can't, temples can not transfer.
Paddy says:
indeed, we loose the temple
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
really... well, nevermind then
Rob says:
No structure that provides culture can be captured or transferred.
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
I'd rather have the temple... and seeing that they are/were #2 in points there has to be some money we get for taking the city and we wouldn't lose that much if we lost the city back besides them having their city
Rob says:
Them having the city is actually huge. We would have a conscript taking the city, so any attack from a war-chariot would have a very good chance of winning. In addition, we could not even fortify.
Paddy says:
Rob, interesting question
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
If we take the city, can we do away w/ the city the next turn or do we have to wait to calm the citizens
Paddy says:
raze straight away for the slaves
Rob says:
We can wipe the city immediately, if we want.
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
almost ready... brb
Rob says:
btw, assuming no defensive terrain, a regular war chariot would win 87% of the time. A vet war chariot will win 94.4% of the time.
Paddy says:
ouch
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
So assuming a war Chariot could not attack on their first turn we should not raze the city?
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
Where do you get these figures? I always seem in the dark
Rob says:
But a war chariot has 2mp, so probably could attack on turn 1 (unless there are no roads connecting the area just outside the city)
Rob says:
TechCalc from CFC
Paddy says:
only if they make it
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
Good to know thanx
Rob says:
It is in the downloads...I think.
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
?what is cfc?
Rob says:
Civ Fanatics Forum
Rob says:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=114
Paddy says:
Solax, earlier you asked about the DR (persian aqua) Iron and my discussion with Euphorica (China)
please know that they are fighting barbarians at this time, and about to expand militarily
so they do not have enough units to get to the DR iron and keep SR from hooking it up
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
Does either of you 2 have access to our General of the XXX
Paddy says:
???
Rob says:
I doubt it
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
Thank you Khan Paddy. This much I figured
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
??? you question my knowledge!
Rob says:
General of the Army Group?
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
Who and where is our military leader?
Paddy says:
no, I do not know what you are talking of
Paddy says:
in the Horde?
Rob says:
I think he wants to know who is our military planner
Paddy says:
at this time it is the council
Paddy says:
Chris and I are discussing the need and position at the moment
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
yes... I thought it was Chrisius or whatever his name is... maximus... something like that... sorry but my secret library computers are not running right now
Rob says:
lol
Paddy says:
ahhh
Paddy says:
No Chris runs Department X, which means he is in charge of the Ambassadors and Espionage
Paddy says:
We will be seeing a lot more of Chris in the very near future
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
I say let the Khan decide, this may be a demo game but I vote for our Despot to rule
Rob says:
I should recruit Provolution...he is a rl espionage expert...
Paddy says:
as to the Commanding officer of the Army, can we please leave that for now, I await some replies etc from people.
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
I say the more the merrier... beside I will soon have job opening at the Library (that is once we actually have a real one and not this make shift tent).
Paddy says:
hehe
Rob says:
between the two of us, Provo and I, we had made an assessment of the C3B military that (although it won't help CFC now) was dead on...
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
I say commanding officer is you Killer Khan until you appoint one
Paddy says:
good value indeed
Paddy says:
thanx
Rob says:
Well...it is actually Paddy as he has been the final arbiter of where our troopies go.
Paddy says:
basically will do for the foresee able future
Paddy says:
Yet a Military Leader will be required at some stage
Rob says:
What is our military like against Porkers in the F3 screen?
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
Yes rob this is true... our secret computers have been unsucessful in hacking into the Great Khan's head while sleeping... though, mind you, it has been rumored that the Khan does not sleep
Paddy says:
hahaha

sleep is like women.... fleeting


opps, sorry maki
Rob says:
Sleep? Sounds like fun...where can I download that?
Paddy says:
hehehe
Paddy says:
Porkers... ahhh on the f3 "Compared to these guys we are strong"
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
Just hit me... besides our small hint given by Amb. Ljube, have we given some kind of dictation to our ally on our possible mission here or is this going to be a
Rob says:
I figured, but it never hurts to check.
Rob says:
That means that, given our total of 11 warriors, they can, at best, have 8. If they have one war chariot, then that number cuts to about 5
Paddy says:
indeed
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
We can't be that far off from Henry connecting us to the horse stables in Bloodview... even if something went a little haywire we always have the option of sending out a couple horses while upgrading our warriors. I don't know... not a military expert so will need some opinions on that.
Rob says:
horsemen are actually quite expensive...
Rob says:
Same cost as a sword
Paddy says:
as to Euphorica, I believe they know our intent to take out the Porkers
this needs to be clarified by Ambassador Ljube
Rob says:
We must assume that they have 4 cities (one made by settler)...so this means that they have no strikeforce capability, imho.
Paddy says:
I am saddened that he has not arrived at this time.
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
True, but assuming that in 8 or 7 turns we may be turning our science down will that not open up some possiblities? I may be wrong but sooner or later we will be need these horsemen for our UU and our hut pops have certainly help us in getting closer to that point.
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
If Aqua only knew that w/ the porkers out and us on the verge of getting our UU's. Ha ha ha
Rob says:
If we declare war...and find that they have horses, w/o a current strikeforce, our two warriors would likely (unless the Porkers happened to fall into **** and come out smelling like roses) be able to disconnect the horses.
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
or
Rob says:
Only if the horses are under a city square, would we be unable to completely disconnect, and only that city could build the war chariots
Paddy says:
hehe
Rob says:
Ummm....how are we on the verge of getting a UU?
Paddy says:
if they do not have horses then they get no chariots
Rob says:
did somebody change the game while I was out sick?
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
Rob this is all relative thinking... in 20 turns we already have Lit. don't we have to only get to Knights to get our UU?
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
"For the record, have only played w/ Mongols once"
Paddy says:
chivalry
Paddy says:
indeed
Rob says:
Yes...but that is in the Middle Ages, and you must have Monotheism and Feudalism to get chivalry
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
Yes, Chivalry... need to change that in the Library books
Rob says:
We are probably 100 turns or more away from Chivalry, imo
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
Assuming that Euphoria is not turning their science down, we can count on them to help out w/ that problem
Rob says:

Rob says:
All those luscious rivers around us (along with the luxuries) is also of enormous benefit...
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
Someone refresh my memory... w/ Philosophy and HBriding soon to come... how many do we have left before we hit the M.A.
Paddy says:
indeed
Paddy says:
a few
Rob says:
Still, researching Currency, et. al. can be a very long and tedious process... (I am assuming that we will likely take Map Making as our freebie as it is the most expensive)
Paddy says:
yes I believe Maps is best
Rob says:
Let's see...Math (or do we have that?), currency, construction, Polytheism...I think one more
Paddy says:
no maths yet
Rob says:
plus Map Making, of course
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
Indeed... if only we could get some of that dye my knowledge seekers could show us how to turn those plain old furs into something we could actually feel comfortable wearing in public
Paddy says:
there is a current Science Advisor pick on the "2950" thread
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
Really! Hurray!
Rob says:
Code of Laws! That's the one I missed!
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
So we are talking about 5 undiscovered sciences right?
Paddy says:
also remember that we will be trading techs with Euphorica
Rob says:
btw, Paddy, if we can buy Math from anybody, we could possibly (if we are first, and that is far from guaranteed) get Construction for free, which is more expensive than Map Making
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
*plus the 2 in the M.A.
Rob says:
3 really, since you also need chivalry'
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
true
Paddy says:
maths....
Paddy says:
hmmmm
Rob says:
Math is needed for Construction.
Paddy says:
I have emaile dAmbassador Ljube, he just posted
Paddy says:
he will have some good insight into whom would be heading for maths firstr
Rob says:
ok
Rob says:
Like I said...this is assuming that we get Philosophy first anyways...which is far from guaranteed.
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
Well, assuming the Lost Boys are truely lost... and persia still has 4 turns then we should not have to worry too much, or am I wrong?
Rob says:
No...anyone w/o writing can't be researching Philosophy
Rob says:
What about our allies?
Paddy says:
they be HBR now
Rob says:
ok
Paddy says:
5 more turns
Rob says:
then only the Lost Boys to worry about
Paddy says:
and they know / or expect we are going Philosophy for the free tech
Rob says:
btw, if we don't have mathematics, I very much recommend Map Making...unless you want to rush to Monarchy.
Paddy says:
well we should see them in 5 turns, hopefully sooner
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
I didn't think we were heading for Monarchy, especially if we were in war
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
I thought Despots we are until time allows for change
Rob says:
...given the tech style we have followed, I didn't thing we were rushing to Monarchy.
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
If we get desperate I believe the Babs are rushing to it though
Rob says:
Given our terrain, despotism is actually not much of a hindrance anyways...
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
paddy... I don't see a new post from Ljube?
Paddy says:
elsewhere in a pbem game
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
Ok, for me and all that are clueless like me... what does terrain have to do w/ that?
Paddy says:
23 minutes ago now
Rob says:
Grass can be irrigated for 3 food, plains can only reach 2 food. Rivers with roads give 2 gpt. Thus the reduction of the despo penalty will not kick in.
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
If you get a little time... could you post something on that in more detail on the Horde Training Camp thread?
Rob says:
I'll try
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
And also post that website on CFC their also?
Paddy says:
the website will be listed in this discussion
Rob says:
ok
Rob says:
yeah...but if I can easily give the correct link to the actual techcalc, I will be helping out fellow horde members...
Paddy says:
Indeed Sir
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
True... but how many will remember to save the address in their favorites? It is more convenient on that thread or in the Horde Directory perhaps.
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
Such as you did w/ the time thing
Rob says:
I don't see the horde training camp thread....
Paddy says:
page two
or via the Horde Directory
Rob says:
sorry.... page 2 of what?
Paddy says:
of the threads
Rob says:
found it, thanks
Paddy says:
cool
Rob says:
Maybe we should get that stickied, Paddy?
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
Paddy, was Prot thinking about joining our nation? Do you know who Prot is?
Paddy says:
yes he may be, No idea who he is
Paddy says:
ahhh sorry Rob, trying hard to keep topped threads to minimun
we do have a comprehensive directory that is topped
Rob says:
ok
Paddy says:
tx
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
BTW... I would like to take this opportunity to apologize to Chris for not knowing his name and title... I guess Guarding this Sacred Knowledge can sometimes be a secret to even me.
Paddy says:
click on the links in the directory and the thread will open
Paddy says:

Rob says:
Ok, good to kno
Paddy says:
1000 mighty years have passed, and we have all come a long way indeed
Rob says:
know
Paddy says:
Ok, next point... KBH build queue
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
I say lets build something
Rob says:
we...we still need that settler for the iron...
Paddy says:
if we build the settler before the next pop growth then it will be back at 1 pop
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
and our other choice is 8 turns away? I'm going to have to tune into the turn thread
Rob says:
Paddy, how many shields does it currently have?
Paddy says:
KBH will have 12 shields when next turn arrives
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
Well, wasn't it stated at somepoint that Bokhara could produce that settler faster?
Paddy says:
6 now3
Paddy says:
KBH now 3 pop, settler in 4, growth in 8
Bohkara now 2, settler in 9, growth in 2, so thus settler faster
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
and a few less movement turns from Bohkara correct?
Paddy says:
1
Rob says:
Well...I'm thinking, Ta-Tu could still build it's settler, while KBH builds the needed archer...then we use KBH for other things, or for a settler, but with the city starting at a higher population...
Paddy says:
yes that higher population can only be a bonus to us in the long run
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
Assuming that we are still going to upgrade in the near future w/ this settler which city can produce more units the quickest?
Rob says:
granted, that is 7 turns (not 4) but then we don't lose the population in a very productive city
Paddy says:
as it is we do not have the gold to upgrade many warriors
Rob says:
KBH...by a lot
Rob says:
there is a cow w/ plains (thus 2 shields) right next to it
Paddy says:
Ta-Tu now 2, settler in 7, growth in 2, so thus settler faster

Rob says:
I like the idea of having Ta-Tu build the iron settler and have KBH build the one archer we wanted
Rob says:
That would also allow our archer to be a vet
Paddy says:
indeed
Paddy says:
and archer in 2 from next turn
Rob says:
so a 1-turn delay on that
Paddy says:
sorry 1 from next turn
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
So, we can still mass produce some warriors even if we won't upgrade them right away and add a spear and archer and our deficit spending will still not depleat our reserves by the time we get Philosophy right
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
assuming that we will lower Science to gain more $$$
Rob says:
deficit spending?
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
minus spending... more troops than can be supported by government and taxes
Rob says:
ahh
Rob says:
that won't be significant at all
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
Killer Khan... your thoughts? I like this idea of producing a Vet. Acher. I also think that we can safely send non-upgraded warriors in advance in case we do have war soon and upgrade the warriors that we can mass produce.
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
If someone can calculate this.... rob.... if we have a settler and movement to establish city... how many turns is the soonest possible upgrade to swordsman?
Paddy says:
yes, and thus save the pop in KBH
Rob says:
that will take a while
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
7 turns plus 4 movements?
Rob says:
circa 10 turns, assuming that the roads are built
Paddy says:
Warriors cost ten gold
Swordsmen cost thirty gold

not sure of upgrade cost
Rob says:
60/
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
Assuming that we stay or increase from our current 86gp we could upgrade one warrior and still have at least 26 gp in our reserves
Paddy says:
ok at 60 gold per unit that is a lot of gold
Rob says:
It is far easier to build them than to upgrade them
Paddy says:
yes
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
But with a possible vet. archer... and upgrading the one warrrior that is vet already on Iron... we could have a powerful start to our invasion force
Rob says:
We can take them with warriors...they don't have much more than 6-7 units
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
If 10-11 turns is what our city is going to be in, we will have Philosophy and another science and then can turn science down to collect some x-tra $$$
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
And assuming that the pigs do not have chariots and have no real defense, do we still need an immediate spearman to guard iron that they'll never know they could've had?
Rob says:
no
Paddy says:
ok, so we have come full circle...
I ask, do we mobilize and start marching now
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
I'm just shooting out ideas here so don't take advice from me... just trying to help the discussion process.
Paddy says:
If we remove this Civ - Porkers, I believe it will be only the 2nd civ destroyed in a poly team demo game... to date
Rob says:
Kill them
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
I say we start beating the drums... even if they have little defense in that first city, we very well may have the workings of a great horde that will soon destroy them.
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
Expansion may be important... but with the growth of KBH, Expansion should soon happen soon enough.
Paddy says:
Ok, I thnk you both for this chat
at this time I believe we have covered a great deal of time.\
Rob says:
ok, cya
Paddy says:
I would like to bring this to a close and post it for discussion
Paddy says:
the save may be here again in the coming 12 hours
Paddy says:
do either of you have anything else you would like to add
Rob says:
Nope...I'm good
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
Depending on how soon our workers are working... what is their course of action?
Rob says:
Oh...except...make sure the workers are building that iron road...
Paddy says:
hehe
Paddy says:
roads to Iron folks
Paddy says:
that is priority
Rob says:

Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
How important is that sugar cane by Ta-Tu?
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
I mean w/ a road?
Rob says:
Not much...you get 1 food and 1 trade extra
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
OK
Rob says:
so a road just gives 1 more trade
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
So where are we sending Devourer of Light?
Rob says:
we could put a mine on it to give a tile with two shields
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
To the pigs?
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
or waiting for that archer?
Paddy says:
Devourer was hunting the pig down south, now to pigland
Rob says:
works for me
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
Cool
Paddy says:
ok, thank you one and all
Paddy says:
bye
Guardian of the Sacred Knowledge says:
bye

Rob has left the conversation.

Attachment: ghengis main.jpg
This has been downloaded 11 time(s).