29-03-2005 11:14									#1
	Defensive probe units Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I just got how to make a guarding probe unit for AI. It does not work perfectly, but using it, no longer all AI bases are so much prone to probing by human players. Some factions seem to take a hint, but other do not build them, just keeping in bases those given to them at the game start.
Unit is predefined, so human players can use it.
When I made regular probe teams, AI was massively sending them for action. assigning the "plan" as defensive unit for that predefined probe team, it now stays in a base. The way it should.

	29-03-2005 12:16									#2
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Give it synthmetal armor?

	29-03-2005 17:16									#3
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I havent give them that, but anyone can. Actually, there is no problem in defining like 2 or 3 such units. the one i did so far, are available at InfNetworks. They are plain foot probes 0-1-1. Cost 1 row only. They ae going to be possibly preferred by AI then. With better armor, AI might make more, though there is a problem for human player then. The armor may be omitted when the unit is attacked by other probe team. Only morale counts then just like in regular probe team fights.

	29-03-2005 18:27									#4
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In my expierence synthmetal armored probes are twice more resilient to probe attacks..
At least I've heard much about such.

	30-03-2005 13:03									#5
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As I understand it, the lack of armor casts the unit as a non-combatant, which is an additional detriment (50%?). So having the Synthmetal is not only beneficial in its own right, but also takes away the non-combatant penalty.

Does making a unit 'defensive' really help keep it at home? Cool.

	01-04-2005 02:52									#6
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I'm pretty sure that armor value is ignored in probe vs probe.

	01-04-2005 04:18									#7
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Not only are unarmored probe teams non-combat, but they actually have a combat strength of roughly .01 when attacked by a military unit. Every now and then, a defending unarmored probe team will do a single point of damage to an attacking unit before dying, which is silly to behold, as I have to imagine someone whacking a soldier with a briefcase full of delicate electronics.

	01-04-2005 04:27									#8
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quote: Originally posted by #endgame I'm pretty sure that armor value is ignored in probe vs probe.

This is the problem. When you see an armoured probe team defending a base you do not send an impact infantry there to defeat it. Another probe team with decent morale will be sufficient

	05-04-2005 10:37									#9
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No luck. My resent findings say, that when a unit having "probe team" weapon has simultaneously assigned plan as "defensive" it no longer is considered a probe team. That would be it as for good defensive probe team for AI from this side. I have to check other ways.

	05-04-2005 15:25									#10
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But as long as it stays in the AI's bases, that's no problem I guess? Whatever the AI may think of it, it's still an obstacle against easy player probing.

Or did I interpret your original post the wrong way?

	05-04-2005 15:29									#11
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder But as long as it stays in the AI's bases, that's no problem I guess? Whatever the AI may think of it, it's still an obstacle against easy player probing.

Unfortunately they do not serve as probe teams. They do not protect against probe team actions. They seem also not be able of performing such...

	05-04-2005 15:32									#12
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So... they look like probe teams, have the probe team weapon on them but don't have the 'qualifications' ? That's it?

	07-04-2005 04:11									#13
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Exactly, I think that a crucial for probe teams is that plan has to be 11, which is intelligence type unit. In other words, every probe team has to have that plan and any different plan renders the unit as "non-probe team"

	08-04-2005 09:19									#14
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Does a similar effect occur for formers? because then you'd have units that are 0-X-1, which means they're only good on defense and don't cost a fortune.

	08-04-2005 09:23									#15
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what kind of arrangement you mean for formers?

	08-04-2005 11:22									#16
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Formers have an attack power of 0, but their equipment has an equivalent weapon cost (6, IIRC). It's never more expensive to build a unit with hand weapons but otherwise identical to such a former.

	09-04-2005 03:08									#17
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Clarify: I meant: do formers need to have an AI plan of 'former' or somesuch to be able to terraform? and what happens if a unit with weapons gets the 'probe team' plan?

	23-08-2005 06:41									#18
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In my SMAniaC mod, I seem to be having some succes in letting the AI build Kevlar(D2)-armoured probe defenses.

	23-08-2005 11:21									#19
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How did you achieve that?

	23-08-2005 18:21									#20
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Oh, I see I forgot to tell. Just add them to the list of basic units.

	24-08-2005 07:14									#21
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Maniac, does AI keep them in bases for defense? or they are set for probe actions?

	24-08-2005 12:15									#22
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Yes, what't their usage flag?

	24-08-2005 19:46									#23
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They don't seem to work as well as I hoped. But still, they work better than the current situation.

If the AI builds probe defences in sea bases or on islands & continents where they are alone, they just let the probes sit in their bases. If they share a continent with another faction, they send them towards that faction.

Which is still better than the current situation of the AI hardly building any probes, but infantry probes aren't exactly the best design for offensive probe actions. And if a armoured infantry probe is added, the AI doesn't build any standard probe teams anymore.

So I added an unarmoured grav infantry probe, so that it has two movement points. In this case the AI builds both versions: Probe Defence and Grav Probe.

Even better it became when I merged these two probes into one design:

code:
AI Probe,               Infantry, Probe Team,   Kevlar,    11, 3, 0, InfNet,  -1, 00000000000000010000000000

	24-08-2005 20:03									#24
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Hey, expect an from the CMN's soon, that's great news for them for it should indicate that the AI will spent less minerals on supporting troops which could mean even a quicker buildup without having to tinker with the faction files.

	24-08-2005 20:38									#25
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder Hey, expect an from the CMN's soon,

quote: Originally posted by GeoModder that's great news for them for it should indicate that the AI will spent less minerals on supporting troops which could mean even a quicker buildup without having to tinker with the faction files.

Its GREAT to see other people tinkering with the game in order to induce the AI's to perform better!

I've played around a bit with giving probes the 3r armor, and psi armor, with some success, but this is more for an "offensive" capability for the AI's.

I've also recently added a few more items to the repretoire of tricks available to CMN/ Creators, which I will "introduce" you all to in my upcoming Septemer CGN Challenge. MANIAC: one idea is of potential assistance to your Defensive Probe design: any interest in reviewing these ideas for your own benefit? Let me know and I can send a PM outlining the ideas.


D

	25-08-2005 02:21									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Darsnan I've also recently added a few more items to the repretoire of tricks available to CMN/ Creators, which I will "introduce" you all to in my upcoming Septemer CGN Challenge. MANIAC: one idea is of potential assistance to your Defensive Probe design: any interest in reviewing these ideas for your own benefit? Let me know and I can send a PM outlining the ideas. D

I am playtesting and all I can say is that players should assume nothing. I actually really like the maps Darsnan comes up with. He has a sense for tactics and land layouts that can lead to good strategical and tactical thinking.

	27-08-2005 00:45									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Darsnan MANIAC: one idea is of potential assistance to your Defensive Probe design: any interest in reviewing these ideas for your own benefit? Let me know and I can send a PM outlining the ideas.

Definitely.

Probes with psi armour sound interesting btw.